The many proposals popping up has another article about New Orleans - Baton Rouge, La
http://www.nola.com/futureofneworleans/2015/07/baton_rouge_to_new_orleans_com.html
The route looks like it might be a combination of suburban service to each endpoint with a short-haul intercity component connecting the endpoints. It might be plausible if the political factors can get resolved and Gov. Jindal recovers from his case of Potomac Fever.
From the connecting the area website:
Earlier this month, MTR explored the concept of transforming the tri-state area’s commuter rail network into a regional rail network. The plans covered differ in scope and detail, but all have one major component in common: changing Penn Station from a terminal to a run-through station.
Currently, many Amtrak trains run through Penn Station on the Northeast Corridor journey between Boston and Washington. So does, infrequently, the joint Metro-North/New Jersey Transit train that brings fans from Connecticut and Westchester to the Meadowlands for football games on designated Sundays.
But what would the benefits of through-running be if implemented across the board? The most important effect might very well be to relieve the capacity crunch that the station is experiencing. With trains making a stop instead of performing their beginning and end-of-run preparations at Penn Station, each track would be able to handle trains at a higher frequency (just imagine if subways lingered at Times Square, Atlantic Avenue and Fulton Center like they do at terminus stations in Coney Island, Flushing or Inwood). Run-through trains would also make journeys from one non-Manhattan destination to another much faster and easier.
Through-running could also make the Penn Station Access project—which will one day bring Metro-North New Haven Line trains to Penn Station—significantly easier. While that project involves very new infrastructure and received $250 million in capital funding in the 2015-16 state budget, it is still years from scheduled completion because it cannot be implemented until some Long Island Rail Road trains are diverted to Grand Central. But with more delays for East Side Access, the opening of Penn Station Access—a significant new transit option for eastern Bronx communities and commuters from farther north–could be a decade or more away.
There are, predictably, some technical barriers to through-running. There’s the pair of narrow (and rapidly deteriorating) tunnels that connect New York and New Jersey, which will eventually be addressed by Amtrak’s Gateway plan (though nobody knows when). And then there’s the issue of electrification systems. Metro-North, LIRR, NJ Transit and Amtrak use a wide variety of electrification systems on their lines, and there are few rail cars or locomotives equipped to operate on all, or even several, of them. Only Amtrak and NJT currently own equipment capable of operating on the Northeast Corridor both west of the Hudson and east of Sunnyside Yard in Queens. Those barriers to interoperability is why it is so important that the MTA has the funding to order M9 cars in the next capital plan. While the first order of M9 cars won’t be equipped with third-rail “shoes” capable of running both under (on the LIRR) and over (on Metro-North trackage) the electrical supply, there’s still hope that future orders may have the equipment necessary to make interoperability possible.
Technical barriers are entirely surmountable (with the right amount of funding), but the real challenge are the political barriers. Sarah Laskow of Capital New York said it best:
Absent political pressure, it’s exactly the sort of project that none of the existing agencies are going to fight for… The idea of a unified regional rail system has been around for years, along with plans to create a unified fare system and to make it easier to reach the New York airports. But however nice they might sound, there’s no agency, commissioner, or politician who really has both the incentive to push for them and the power to make them happen.
Right now they are able to run 26 trains an hour through the tunnel. Rearrange everything so all the trains run through. They’ll be able to run 26 trains an hour through the tunnel.
Just this past week they had serious problems with signals and power on the New Jersey side. Not only would that delay passengers to and from New Jersey but as an added special attraction all the people who use the trains that run through to Connecticut or Long Island! Same thing would have happened a few years ago when lightning struck just out of Jamaica and they couldn’t get the signals to work for hours.
Can’t the M-8 cars CT has that runs in Amtrak overhead AC and MTA DC third rail into GCT operate on all lines?
Aside from what was mentioned, one of the biggest obstacles is the inability of the three supra-transportation agencies (MTA, NJTransit & NY&NJPA) to work for the common good. Too much self interest by this bunch!
The operational flexibility and possible one-seat ride would be great if there was a unified system, but we have ingrained interests at cross purposes with not enough money to go around. smart idea without hope of implementation
Article generally covers items correct. However MNRR is under running 3rd rail and LIRR is over running 3rd rail. As well the North river tunnels have over running 3rd rail as well as 12 KV overhead Catenary Correct that M-9s are equipped with only under running 3rd rail as well as pantographs for 12.5 KV Catenary Rochelle to New Haven.
While there are some operational efficiencies to through-running and it is useful for special events like football games in the Meadowlands, I am not convinced that it would be a wise investment of very limited capital resources of the MTA or NJT. How big is the market for a one-seat ride from Hicksville to South Orange? From the Jersey Shore to Stamford or Waterbury?
As I understand it, the M8 cars can not operate on 12 thousand volts, 25 cycle current (transformer limitations). This means they can not operate in New Jersey or in the East River tunnels on alternating current. I think that the M2 and other New Haven predecessors can operate on 12 thousand volts, 25 cycle current.
For MNRR there may be a fairly inexpensive way to provide thru service at NYP.
1. Equip M-9s with a 25 HZ / 60 HZ transformer.
2. Double track the Empire track from NYP - Spuyten Duyvill including the bridge or better still fly over the bridge connecting to present MNRR Hudson line by Riverdale.
3. Add 12.5 Kv 60 Hz CAT from NYP to Riverdale.
4. Wait for east side access to open to provide some open slots at NYP.
5. That way MNRR could operate trains from New Haven ( maybe even Springfield. ) to Croton - Harmond. There might be at least some thru passengers and NYP LIRR passengers could transfer although the East side access at GCT might be faster.
Equjipping the MN fleet with 25Hz capable transformers is not a simple matter. The design of one that can handle both 25 Hz and 60 Hz and both 12,000 and 25,000 volts is easy. Problem is it will weigh more that four times the existing transformers and be four times as bulky.
And eventually the whole NEC will be 60 Hz.
daveklepperFrom the connecting the area website:
Assume I am stupid and provide me a direct URL to this site. I can't find it via Google for some reason.
daveklepper Technical barriers are entirely surmountable
Technical barriers are entirely surmountable
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=%22Technical+barriers+are+entirely+surmountable%22
Thanks. (I didn't try enough of the right phrases!)
I am glad the URL question was answered by someone else. Note that I get stuff in the email. If I think it of interest for a Trains or Classic Trains forum, I then use "copy" and "past" to put it in MSWord 2003 on my hard drive or a USB device memory. I then copy it into my posting. Often,I have already deleted the source email to keep the inbox from being overloaded.
[/quote][quote user="wanswheel"]
We, in NC, are threatened by these two Republican ideas:
http://www.wral.com/lifestyles/travel/story/10103261/
RALEIGH, N.C. — The Piedmont train, which runs daily between Raleigh and Charlotte, would reach the end of the line if Congress approves a Republican-backed budget plan, Amtrak officials said Thursday.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article36091740.html
State Rep. Paul Stam was pleased to discover a provision that House and Senate negotiators had inserted in the state budget – four lines that probably will kill prospects for light rail transit in Orange and Durham counties.
“Light rail is sort of a dinosaur of the 20th century or the 19th century,” Stam, an Apex Republican who is the dean of Wake County’s legislative delegation, said last week. “If the cities want to do it, fine. But the state shouldn’t chip in on it.”
Our Republican-led legislature already had taken steps to limit state spending for transit projects.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Dave,
Your Piedmont story is from 2011. Those costs have already been loaded onto the Piedmont, but the state has covered it so far. At the MTC meeting tonight, I heard that Rep. Stam was back tracking on this part of the budget when confronted on it today. Lets see what tomorrow brings.
blue streak 1 The many proposals popping up has another article about New Orleans - Baton Rouge, La http://www.nola.com/futureofneworleans/2015/07/baton_rouge_to_new_orleans_com.html
When you opened this thread, I was going to make my usual comment that I had been hearing about this kind of thing for many years, but the reporter said as much in his opening statements. I'm not holding my breath, but it looks like it may have a chance of happening. We are in the middle of state elections, and both candidates for governor say they would support it.
http://www.theneworleansadvocate.com/news/business/13890336-123/proponents-say-passenger-rail-from
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Phoebe Vet State Rep. Paul Stam was pleased to discover a provision that House and Senate negotiators had inserted in the state budget – four lines that probably will kill prospects for light rail transit in Orange and Durham counties. “Light rail is sort of a dinosaur of the 20th century or the 19th century,” Stam, an Apex Republican who is the dean of Wake County’s legislative delegation, said last week. “If the cities want to do it, fine. But the state shouldn’t chip in on it.” Our Republican-led legislature already had taken steps to limit state spending for transit projects.
Sounds like real planning for 1900....I Like Ike!, bring back the 1950's - yes, that is real leadership for the 21st Century.[/sarcasm]
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
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