A note in my local newspaper on today's history says "In 1955, Manhattan's last elevated rail line, the Third Avenue El, ceased operation."
A check of Wiki shows that 1955 was the last year for the 3rd Avenue line in Manhattan, although it continued longer in the Bronx, and on the 9th Avenue line north of 155th Street.
When I was a kid in 1954 our family moved to the NY area (Long Island). In the mid-fifties, I remember them pointing out the "Els" in Manhattan. I believe there are still some elevated sections of the subway system in far northern Manhattan, but officially the "Els" are long gone.
And, 60 years later, its replacement (along with the Second Avenue El) is still under construction.
And there are still plenty of elevated structures in Da Bronx. Apparently those miles of deck girder viaduct were cheaper to erect and maintain than cut-and-cover tunnels.
Chuck (EX Noo Yawka)
That cost differential goes a long way in explaining why the Loop L has never been replaced with a subway, although proposals to do so date back to at least the 1920's.
Manhattan elevateds: Sixth Avenue abandoned in 1938, northern portion of Second Avenue and all of Ninth Avenue south of 155th Street abandoned in 1940, southern half of Second Avenue and Queensboro Bridge connection to Queen Plaza abandoned in 1942. Brooklyn elevateds, the remaining two, to Park Row, Manhattan, via the Brooklyn Bridge, abandoned ini 1944, with the center tracks then used by streetcars until 1948, instead of outer roadway tracks. Third Avenue lost the South Ferry - Chatham Square portion about 1952, then Citiy Hall (Park Row)-Chatham Sqaure about 1953 or 1954, before removal south of 149th Street, The Bronx, in 1955.
My Dad was a physician and surgeon, an eye-ear-nose-and-throat specialist. He had an office where we lived on West 85th Street, and another on West 29th Street. He was often distracted by thinking about his patients' illnesses when commuting. Going downtown, he abandoned the Ninth Avenue elevated when the Eight Avenue subway opened in 1932, at first using it in both directions. Because going downtown, he would occasionally board a Sixth Avenue train which meant a longer walk than getting off a Ninth Avenue train practically at the corner. In 1932, no problem like that on the subway. But then in 1933 one day after the E train started running to Queens (E still uses the local track in Manhattan), he boarded that instead of the CC. So the routine for all of us was to go downtown on the subway and uptown on the elevated. Could not make a mistake that way.
daveklepper My Dad was a physician and surgeon, an eye-ear-nose-and-throat specialist. He had an office where we lived on West 85th Street, and another on West 29th Street. He was often distracted by thinking about his patients' illnesses when commuting. Going downtown, he abandoned the Ninth Avenue elevated when the Eight Avenue subway opened in 1932, at first using it in both directions. Because going downtown, he would occasionally board a Sixth Avenue train which meant a longer walk than getting off a Ninth Avenue train practically at the corner. In 1932, no problem like that on the subway. But then in 1933 one day after the E train started running to Queens (E still uses the local track in Manhattan), he boarded that instead of the CC. So the routine for all of us was to go downtown on the subway and uptown on the elevated. Could not make a mistake that way.
Rgds IGN
60 years ago? Then obviously I was wrong when I remembered an elevated track over the Bowery when I was a kid on account I was born 60 years ago. Then where was I? Couldn't have been the Bowery since I never met Slip Mahoney or Satch.
Anudder ex Noo Yawker.
More to the point, what did he do after the 9th Avenue elevated quit in 1940? I began going downtown from school and meeting my mom and dad and returning with them to our uptown house. I was careful to note that that we would not get on an E train to Queens. Often they would treat me to a restaurant dinner in the area near Penn Station, sometimes a chinese restaurant. Otherwise, well if DAd and sometimes both ended in Queens, my homecooked dinner would be late. The Sixth Avenus Subway opened later, after the 9th Avenue elevated was abandoned. But Dad and often both parents (Mom was his office Nurse having a Pharmasist's degree) usually went downtown at hours when the AA local was providing the Central Park West local service, with the BB and CC the rush-hour service only. BB, Washington Hieghts - 6th Avenue, CC, Bronx Concourse - 8th Avenue, and AA, Washington Heights, - 8th Avenue. Usually no problem.
54light15 60 years ago? Then obviously I was wrong when I remembered an elevated track over the Bowery when I was a kid on account I was born 60 years ago. Then where was I? Couldn't have been the Bowery since I never met Slip Mahoney or Satch. Anudder ex Noo Yawker.
The last El operated 60 years ago, but I imagine it was some time before they were torn down. Also, didn't some of the subways use the bridges to cross the East River?
They still do. I believe that several routes use the Williamsburg Bridge.
Although officially a subway line, all the Williamsburg Bridge routs operate largely on an elevated structure, the Broadway Brooklyn elevated, which was strengthened for steel cars. But the oldest structure still in use on the New York system is the stretch east of Broadway Junction - East New York- Eastern Parkway, on Fulton Street East, originally planned for three tracks like the portion on Broadway, but the center track never installed because of its added weight . This structure is easily over 100 years old and still in use. The J and rush hour Z use it. In Manhattan, the 1 line is on a structure north of Dykeman 200th Street until it crosses what I still call the Kingsbridge but is officially the Broadway Bridge into the Bronx. Also on the same rout there is the Manhattenville Valley Viaducte with the 125th Street Station. Other than those two, Manhattan lacks elevateds as such. In addition to the Williamsburg Bridge, with its J, M, and Z trains, the Manhattan Bridge has four tracks, with the B and D on the north pair, and the N and Q on the south pair, the main roadway between. Above each pair of rapid transit tracks there used to be a pair of streetcar tracks, with wire only on the south pair and both wire and conduit on the north pair. Those lanes are now private-car and taxi roadways, one in each direction.
The Brooklyn and Queensboro bridges had both elevated and streetcar tracks at one time, gone. At one time eight Brooklyn elevated lines converged on the Brooklyn Bridge, while 2nd Avenue elevated trains used the Quennsboro Bridge until 1942.
I lived in NYC as a little kid and remember the elevated lines in north Manhattan in 1972. The City is much MUCH improved since then although sadly most of the EI is gone.
I don't know man, maybe you watched those old "Bowery Boys" movies so much you THOUGHT you were there. Kind of like me being a military history buff and having flash-backs to wars I was never in!
PS: I loved those "Bowery Boys" movies when I was growing up in Northern New Jersey, good old Channel Five! They may have been a "Poverty Row" production but I wish there were films around today as sharply written as those old "BB" films were.
Ulrich I lived in NYC as a little kid and remember the elevated lines in north Manhattan in 1972. The City is much MUCH improved since then although sadly most of the EI is gone.
The elevateds you saw in Manhattan were the two structures I noted, Broadway from Dyckman-200th Street north to the Harlem River, and the Manhatenville Valley Viaduct. The are still in use. All other Manhattan elevateds were gone by the end of 1955.
I agree, Firelock, and leave us not forget the superb classic, "Angels With Dirty Faces" How do you know an old movie is great? Is James Cagney in it? Then it's great. On the first day of shooting, the director, Michael Curtiz said, "Action!" Leo Gorcey made a wisecrack and Jimmy punched him in the nose. Told him, "We are professionals and we do not waste these people's time." Apparently the BBs gave Bogart a hard time during filming of "Dead End." Yep, I watched all the BB films. I recall that they were officially called "East Side Comedy" on the TV station but no one I knew called them that. My sister had a crush on Satch if you can believe that!
You want to see the El in a movie? Do I really need to tell you about "the French Connection?"
54light15 You want to see the El in a movie? Do I really need to tell you about "the French Connection?"
Potato, potahtoe.
It's a train, it's above ground on a no-nonsense steel trestle, it's in New York, it might as well be an "El" even if it's really the subway come up for a breath of fresh air.
While we're on the subject, just what "El" was it that was scrapped and sold to the Japanese that they turned into the bombs that were dropped on Pearl Harbor? I heard that urban legend a looooong time ago.
Much of the steel of the 6th Avenue Elevated, scrapped in 1938, went to Japan. Some of the structures scrapped in 1940 did also, the 9th Avenue, upper portion of the 2nd Avenue, inner portion of the Fulton Street elevated in Brooklyn, and the 5th Avenue (Brooiklyn) Elevated and its Bay Ridge (3rd Avenue) branch.
Thanks for that detailed response Dave! I'd heard one of the El's went to Japan as scrap, but didn't think it was so many of them.
My God, if the people selling the scrap only knew...
Firelock76 It's a train, it's above ground on a no-nonsense steel trestle, it's in New York, it might as well be an "El" even if it's really the subway come up for a breath of fresh air. While we're on the subject, just what "El" was it that was scrapped and sold to the Japanese that they turned into the bombs that were dropped on Pearl Harbor? I heard that urban legend a looooong time ago.
LaGuardia's denial was about on a par with his denial of having been to Bridgeport when asked during the Mayorial debates in 1929. Mayor Walker had asked him what he was doing in Bridgeport and LaGuadia denied having even been to Bridgeport. Mostly Walker was winding LaGuardia up.
Narig found the evidence that this scrap did not go to Japan. He will surely post the evidence shortly. However, there is nothing to have prevented this scrap from replacing other scrap that then could be sold to Japan. In 1938, that is. In 1940, it would have been tougher because of certain restrictive export laws that were passed after Britain and France were involved in WWII in 1939, after the Axis of Japan, Germany, and Italy had formed.
Firelock76While we're on the subject, just what "El" was it that was scrapped and sold to the Japanese that they turned into the bombs that were dropped on Pearl Harbor? I heard that urban legend a looooong time ago.
It was the 6th Avenue El. I think the 9th Avenue El may have met a similar fate. In addition, the Delaware Avenue Elevated in Philadelphia (originally built in 1908 as the east end of the Market Street Subway-Elevated...the Frankford El opened in November, 1922, and the Delaware Avenue El became a branch until it closed in May, 1939)was taken down in 1940, and once again, agents acting for Japanese interests bought the scrap metal.
South Ferry had the 2,3,6,9, avenue els plus the 1,5,4, IRT and the N<R<W< BMT lines, and the Bowling Green Shuttle. Can't beat that for station acess.
Firelock76 Thanks for that detailed response Dave! I'd heard one of the El's went to Japan as scrap, but didn't think it was so many of them. My God, if the people selling the scrap only knew...
In 1961, a Harvey Smedley an attorney for the Harris Structural Steel Company, which was involved in the demolition, wrote syndicated columnist George Sokolosy that the reports of the sale of steel from the El to Japan were incorrect.
In both it was claimed that the demolition contract had provisions forbidding export of the scrap. What is more likely is this scrap replaced scrap being exported from the west coast. In 1940 the US imposed an export ban to punish Japan for its war of aggresion in China(Japanese actions in China before and during WWII were even worse then what Nazi Germany had done).
If someone has the time and the ability to research this it would make an interesting read. New York since the consolidation of 1898 has kept all its records of doing business(at least copies of city contracts, but no great records of the bribery have emerged).
PS The George Sokolsky column piece on the denial:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=7CEsAAAAIBAJ&sjid=E54FAAAAIBAJ&pg=927,1975011&dq=scrap+metal+japan+sixth-avenue&hl=en
Interesting responses to the scrap sale all. I suppose we can chalk this up to an "urban legend" that once it grew legs, there was no stopping it.
Now about those alligators in the New York City sewers...
Firelock76 Interesting responses to the scrap sale all. I suppose we can chalk this up to an "urban legend" that once it grew legs, there was no stopping it. Now about those alligators in the New York City sewers...
This is from a couple of years ago.
The AFLAC duck was accused of jumping the turnstiles in the NYC subway. Or should I say he ducked.http://gothamist.com/2013/09/23/duck_spotted_turnstile_jumping_in_t.phpThe previous stories.A sharkhttp://gothamist.com/2013/08/07/photos_dead_shark_on_subway.php#photo-1And kittenshttp://gothamist.com/2013/08/29/video_adorable_kittens_frolic_on_su.phpIn an interview with the gothamist an MTA spokesperson was quoted as saying MTA had mammal handlers :•}. Of course of all these incidents the only mammals were the kittens. The latest involved a fowl.Enjoy everyone.Thx IGN
I saw a documentary about sharks fighting the sewer gators. Wait, it wasn't a documentary. It was Sharknado 2 where the sharks invade New York. Sharknado 1 was superb enough, the sequel was even better. I mean really, how many sharks do you see in Jaws? One! How many in the Sharknado pictures? Thousands! Hanging from the runner of a helicopter! Impaled on the antenna of the Empire State Building! Bursting through the chest of Toronto mayor Rob Ford! Doesn't get any better than that and all you need is beer.
Hey, never mind "Sharknado", I've seem clips from the Sci-Fi Channel's version, new-updated-and rebooted, of "Moby Dick." WOW, that looks cool! Ol' Moby eats a submarine, a helicopter, and a cruise ship! I'd LOVE to see the whole thing!
Hellava lot more action than a "Doctor Who" episode.
Besides, what's the point of an over-the-top monster movie if it doesn't have the "what's it gonna eat next?" factor?
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