Did the cleveland RTA retain any of its original Shaker heights PCC cars or any of CTS blue bird cars?
I believe one pair of original "Bleubirds" was converted to work service and is still on the property.
I know the both turnaround loops gone?
Remember riding the Shaker RT to a Browns vs Colts playoff game - back in the day.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Not sure if I'm thinking of the right bits, but I don't think that the RTA used PCC cars on the Rapid Transit lines that run out to green / van aken / the airport. However, there were additional lines downtown (since paved over) that they may have run over (unfortunately, the pics I can find, I can't read the destination signs, so can't tell what lines the PCC cars are actually on ... or if the 'trolley' lines downtown were even RTA to begin with).
That said, I've not seen any PCC Cars in the 55th St. yards -- just the subway-looking EMU coaches that run daily (and several examples of older sets that get pulled out for heavy-traffic occassions, like St. Patrick's Day, sporting events, etc.)
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
The first CTS rapid transit cars, which were retired in the 1980's, were considered to be PCC cars since they were covered by PCC patents held by the Transit Research Corp. They may not have looked similar to PCC streetcars or even CTA's 6000 series cars, but they were PCC's.
Cleveland RTA ran PCC for many years. They repainted them from shaker rapid transit yellow to thier own paint scheme. I too remember riding the PCC after ball games, sometimes with three or four cars my together.
The Shaker Heights lines used PCCs purchased new, as well as ex-TCRT (Minneapolis) cars converted to MU. All of them were replaced in service by Breda LRVs in the 1980s.
in addition to Shaker Heights PCC's, Cleveland Railways, later Clevland Transit, also had a post-WWII PCC fleet. They were built with provisions for conversion to MU, because at that time the thought was that the east-west rapid transit line would be light rail, not heavy rail as built. All Cleveland Railways PCC's were sold to Toronto about a year before the end of Cleveland streetcar service, which was closed out on the Madison line with the 4000-series Peter Witt cars. In Toronto they were rapidly equipped with couplers and mu connections to run in two-car trains on Bloor-Danforth until replaced by the subway line of that name. Toronto also had new mu PCC's on that line. All Cleveland-area PCC streetcars and light rail cars, both Shaker and Cleveland Railways, were by St. Louis, except, if my memory is correct, for one Pulllman sample car. I don't remember who built the Bluebird PCC rapid transit cars, but my guess is St. Louis.
Shaker Heights PCC cars 71-95 were built by Pullman Standard in 1947. Pullman-built Boston PCC 3221 operated in demonstrator service in 1945. Ten cars from St. Louis Public Service (40-49) and 20 from Twin Citiy Rapid Transit (51-70) were built by St. Louis Car. All of SHRT's PCCs had GE controls and Clark B-2 trucks, so they could all MU. Cleveland Transit System's "Bluebirds" (12 singles, 28 pairs) were buit by St. Louis car. They had PCC controls on non-PCC General Steel Casting trucks.
Thanks for the correction on the original Shaker Heights PCC's. Ia the Blubird pair converted to work service still on the property, or has it been scrapped? Also, as I recall, there was one old converted Cleveland car that was available for charter on Shaker Heights, and I wonder if it is still around. At an ERA Convention, we actually had it running on the Airport line!
RTA donated car 12 (CTS 1212) to the Northern Ohio Railway Museum in 2013. NORM has two others of the same class(1203, 1225), and Seashore has 1227 and trailer 2365 (1227 runs, 2365 is waitng for seats).
Boston PCC 3221 still exists somewhere on Seashore's back lot.
SHRT roster info from CERA Bulletin 108.
daveklepper All Cleveland-area PCC streetcars and light rail cars, both Shaker and Cleveland Railways, were by St. Louis, except, if my memory is correct, for one Pulllman sample car. I don't remember who built the Bluebird PCC rapid transit cars, but my guess is St. Louis.
All Cleveland-area PCC streetcars and light rail cars, both Shaker and Cleveland Railways, were by St. Louis, except, if my memory is correct, for one Pulllman sample car. I don't remember who built the Bluebird PCC rapid transit cars, but my guess is St. Louis.
Both CTS and Shaker had Pullman built PCCs. An example of a CTS Pullman car is being restored at IRM.
As of last year all or most of the PCCs and Heritiage is off the property. There was a PCC car on a side track in the basement of Tower City. The cars have been moved to Northern Ohio Transit Musuem or NOARS (Northern Ohio Railway Society). Dont Know why but someone at RTA was hell bent on erasing the past and killing off any chance of a heritage trolley line even though the Flats Line was originaly supposed to be exactly that as well as having a Heritage waterfront trolley line and Heritage trolley loop downtown Cleveland.
I guess one of the issues with the PCC was that they required the turning loop in union terminal, thus a separate concourse. Once you detrain from the old shaker rapid it was a mad dash up and down esculaters, Thur union terminal to get to the CTS rapid. With the new cars it just a walk across the boarding area to connect to any of the rapid lines. Not as historic as the PCC but much faster and convenient. Sure much easier if you have luggage and going to the airport.
both shaker and cleveland transit had pullman pcc's. but were all the cleveland pcc's pullman? thought i had seen a st. louis pcc (mu in toronto) in toronto that was reportadly from cleveland. an error?
NO for 9 years untill the compleation of Tower City Mall there was seperate boarding areas and entrances for Shaker Rapid and High Platform Red Line Airport Trains. I know I rode it back and forth to school for 5 years. Still not sure where the Erie Laccawanna Youngstown Commuter Train Platform was that ran untill 1977 and may have been in place untill the 1989 mall-fication of the Terminal Tower
I am not sure what you are referring Cleveland union terminal was built for both intercity trains and the shaker rapid. The shtr system parallel the cut trackage into the terminal and it trackage and platforms at s lower level. CTS used a portion of the original cut east and westbound right of way. The CTS and the shrt never shared platforms until the RTA cars arrived. El trains number 28 and 29 closed out the long distance era at union terminal and used the normal upper level platforms and gates. It was formally the Erie railroad connecting train to hobken nj. As I said in the above post the CTS and shrt never and by thier operating system shared the same platforms until the RTA rebuilt the concourse for thier new cars. Like you I ride both the CTS,shrt,the NYC and the last Amtrak trains out of cut.
If you walk back to the most furthest reaches of current terminal city You will the boarded up ticket windows. Erie/ el/ Conrail train 28-29 from a gate in front ticket windows. The train used Cleveland union terminal right of way which still can be seen from the eastbound rapids until east 55 where the line curved to the right and joined the former Erie mainline. It was crazy that Amtrak could not be persuaded to to remain in cut.
ROBERT WILLISON The CTS and the shrt never shared platforms until the RTA cars arrived.
The CTS and the shrt never shared platforms until the RTA cars arrived.
I assume CTS is the Windermere-Airport high level platform line. What's it an abbreviation for? I also assume you mean they never shared platforms at Cleveland Union Terminal. When I rode, PCC's around 1980, and Breda cars around 1985, both lines shared platforms and tracks at their common stations east of the terminal. The platforms had a high level and a low level section.
Both times when I rode they had left hand running in the shared trackage east of the terminal so the single ended PCC's could use the low level end of the same platform they shared with the double ended Windermere-Airport line. I haven't been back since, but have heard that with the double ended Breda cars they've eliminated that left hand running.
Patrick Boylan
Free yacht rides, 27' sailboat, zip code 19114 Delaware River, get great Delair bridge photos from the river. Send me a private message
The Pennsylvania Trolley Mseum, Washington, PA, near Pittsburgh, houses Shaker Heights PCC 94, built in 1948 by Pullman Standard. (Visit PTM's website, under "Collection.") The city of Cleveland assumed ownership of the Shaker Heights Rapid Transit Co. and continued to provide service with 94 and its 24 sisters. I was always fascinated by how these units were often MU'ed in 4- or 5-car trains.
ROBERT WILLISON Did the cleveland RTA retain any of its original Shaker heights PCC cars or any of CTS blue bird cars?
Thoses mu PCC looked like little yellow passenger trains. The city of Cleveland never operated the shaker rapid. City of Shaker assumed control in the early 1940's until the grta took ownership of many of suburban bus lines,the shaker rapid and the CTS.
ROBERT WILLISON Thoses mu PCC looked like little yellow passenger trains. The city of Cleveland never operated the short. City of Shaker assumed control in the early 1940's until the grta took ownership of many of suburban bus lines and the CTS.
Thoses mu PCC looked like little yellow passenger trains. The city of Cleveland never operated the short. City of Shaker assumed control in the early 1940's until the grta took ownership of many of suburban bus lines and the CTS.
Trains had what I remember as a pretty good article about the MUed PCCs many years ago. Thanks to CrApple Computer I'm unable to find the reference via the Complete Collection, but someone wiser than me can locate it and provide cites.
Thank for the tip.
mu pcc's: all bought-new boston pcc's eventually were mu, except the original 3000, the "Queen Mary," that lacked a left-side door, making it usable only on a few routes. doors were the conventional single-end peter witt configuration withi a left-side door just forward of the right exit door. the larges fleet. second-hand dallas double-end cars were never mu.
toronto: some bought new, some second-hand cleveland cars prepared for mu got it in Toronto. a sizable fleet and about 25% of the total pcc fleet. single-end peter witt
pacific electric glendale-burbank line, only pcc's on the system. double-end peter witt
illinois terminal: smallest pcc fleet, only 10 cars, all mu, granit city suburban service, end door double end
Shaker heights, new and second hand, all single-end peter witt, all pcc's mu.
if anyone knows of more, please reply
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.