Caltrain too successful ?

[blue streak 1]

A report that is buried very deep in the Caltrain web site has several items.

1. Local trains limited at many stations to 5 cars.

2. EMUs appear that they will not mitigate this problem

3. Ridership up 2-1/4 times 2004 low

4. Many trains overcrowded

5. ~ 8 platforms will be difficult to lengthen due to pedestrian and/ or roadway crossings meaning much money.

6. Can already see the nimbys coming out of the woodwork.

 http://www.caltrain.com/Assets/Caltrain+Modernization+Program/Presentations/Caltrain+Longer+Platform+and+Trains.pdf

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[Overmod]

blue streak 1

Sorry cannot activate the link from this computer.

Here is the direct download link for the .pdf file.

  You have to download it and then open it with a program like Acrobat to read it.

[schlimm]

bluestreak:

I do not see the report as being as negative as you portray it.  Electrification alone increases capacity considerably.

[Cricketer]

Short platforms of themselves aren't a problem; there are plenty of places in ther UK at least with selective door opening, eg the last two carriage doors don't open. The train's on board announcements make it clear what carriage one is in and say that if one wants to get off one should move forward (and occasionally on the London Underground move back). 

Sorting out pedestrain crossings is also do-able, but more expensive - build footbridges or subways, with ramps/lifts for those who are using wheels (wheelchairs and strollers for example.) Sorting out roads is big bucks.

[daveklepper]

An electrified double-track railroad can run passenger trains on a two-minute headway because of good acceleration and deceleration at stops.  So regardless of the limitations on train length, they have a lot of room to increase capacity.  So then, it is a question of more economical operation with longer trains vs. the inconvenience of selective door opening vs. the capital expense of foot bridges and tunnels.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The capital expense of electrification and the corresponding new equipment for the suburban service is also quite high.  Selective door opening is not a major problem.  On my Metra line (Southwest Service), there are some short platforms and the train crew announces well in advance (prior to the first stop at Landers) as to which cars will not open at which stops.

[blue streak 1]

schlimm

bluestreak:

I do not see the report as being as negative as you portray it.  Electrification alone increases capacity considerably.

First the computer temporality being used does not have many of features of mine which limits separation. Cannot separate paragraphs for one or activate links.

I am not being negative about Caltrain. Their ridership is about 10 years ahead of original projections. This causing the financial requirements to change. Long range plans and eventual use of tracks by CAL HSR will eliminate many of the listed bottlenecks.

Platform length certainly is a present problem. The difference now of schedule times from baby bullets to locals is much higher than for instance the NEC. No matter how the expansions are built all platform expansions need to have future lengthening planned. A little more money now for big savings in the future. Anyone know platform lengths planned for the new Transbay terminal ? That should be the smallest planned length ?

If the old terminal at 4th & Townsend remains in use the that length should be considered as well.

 

[narig01]

By blue streak
1 on Friday, August 15, 2014
schlimm bluestreak

Anyone know platform lengths planned for the new Transbay terminal ? That should be the smallest planned length ? -----------------------------------------------If the old terminal at 4th & Townsend remains in use the that length should be considered as well.

I can not say as to the actual platform lengths. However in the latest gooogle maps you can see the entire excavation.

Use this address. 401 Mission St, San Francisco, Ca

Rgds IGN

[blue streak 1]

daveklepper

An electrified double-track railroad can run passenger trains on a two-minute headway because of good acceleration and deceleration at stops.  it is a question of more economical operation with longer trains vs. the inconvenience of selective door opening vs. the capital expense of foot bridges and tunnels.

 

The present limitation of only 5 car platforms to clear the crossing island circuits of some stations is certainly a problem that this poster was unaware.  If a train is say 10 cars then the lower operating costs of longer trains has to be weighed by how operations are conducted.  If cars are labeled for certain stops only then that may be a short term solution until major capital improvements are made.  That would only enable 3 minute headways.

If double stops are implemented then that reduces line capacity by the ~ 4 minutes involved in a double stop ? then headwas can only be ~ no more quicker than 6 minutes ?

We can suspect that Ca HSR might present additional problems and solutions of say a 10 car traina.

[MikeF90]

IMO the downtown SF developers that are behind the Transbay Center are purposely downplaying / hiding the huge taxpayer burden of grade separation improvements on the peninsula.

Caltrain, like most taxpayer funded entities, is cash poor and overseen by politician stuffed boards with their own agenda. Many of the platforms are too close to level grade crossings or ancient RR bridges that need to be replaced. Solving those problems will be time consuming, extremely costly and require navigating a challenging political minefield. The affluent mid peninsula cities are very NIMBY friendly and didn't plan well around the station sites - taking property even temporarily for shooflys will add greatly to the overall expense. 

Now, once these separations are completed platform extension is a piece of cake. Many of us non-local Californians are skeptical of overcontributing to this pricey piece of the HSR project. I'd rather transfer to (the future extension of) BART at San Jose and travel up the East Bay.

[blue streak 1]

Caltrain id purchasing 16 surplus Metrolink cars to add to trains.  Still not clear how 6 car trains will be handled at the short platform stations ? Cars will be refurbished and may take up to a year to place in service.

 

http://www.caltrain.com/about/news/Caltrain_To_Purchase_Additional_Rail_Cars.html

 

 

[daveklepper]

many commuter railroads run trains too long for the platforms at certain stations.   announcements are made for passengers to be in specific cars for exiting at those stations.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

daveklepper

many commuter railroads run trains too long for the platforms at certain stations.   announcements are made for passengers to be in specific cars for exiting at those stations.

Quite true, Metra's Southwest Service has several short platforms and appropriate announcements are made. On the IC, which has all high-level platforms, a handful of low-volume stops have a platform that's only one or two carlengths in length, with the doors on only one car being opened to the platform.

[NorthWest]

blue streak 1

Caltrain id purchasing 16 surplus Metrolink cars to add to trains.  Still not clear how 6 car trains will be handled at the short platform stations ? Cars will be refurbished and may take up to a year to place in service.

I think these are the cab cars that have been stored for a while after Metrolink became scared of their collision protection capabilities. They were stored just out of LAUS for a while.

[blue streak 1]

Guess if Caltrain does due diligence they will study how other agencies handle this problem.  Then maybe experiment now before rebuilt cars arrive to see how well a plan works.  The baby bullets can be longer and not stop at short platform stations ?  Anyone know if they skip short platform stations now ?

[MikeF90]

blue streak 1

The baby bullets can be longer and not stop at short platform stations ?  Anyone know if they skip short platform stations now ?

A quick comparison of the Caltrain schedule and slide 13 of the top reference shows there is no easy or cheap solution. All 18 stations needing extensions (except College Park) have many Limited Stop or Baby Bullet trains.