Hi, My question concerns the NYC Subway and the Staten Island Railway. The SI cars are basically the same as subway cars, but I seem to remember seeing somewhere that the SI cars are modified to meet railroad standards. Does anyone know of such changes? I think it is appliances such as grab irons and such. Thanks for any help you can assist me with. Happy Independence Day everyone!
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henry6 SIRR cars are shorter than many MTA subway cars, more to the standards of H&M-PATH and IRT cars, with similar widths and platform heights.
I think that you'll find SIRT cars are built to MTA B division specifications (Ex IND/BMT).
Slightly off topic, SIRT was electrified in 1925, and their cars were built to the same dimensions as the BMT A-B Steels, for a planned Staten Island-Brooklyn tunnel. A bunch were modified and sent to work on the ex-BMT in the early 1950s.
The R44s for SIRT are all single cars, unlike the Subway, no A-B or A-B-B-A sets. They all have cabs and couplers, unlike the Subway cars (all A cars, the Subway B cars have no cabs). They do have additional grab irons, and side steps (these are painted yellow, steps and anticlimbers on the Subway are unpainted). I think there are others, but I can't remember at this point. Maybe Lion can chime in?
12 Subway R44s were rebuilt into "R43s" and were sent to the SIRT.
The original SIRT mu cars were built to be compatible with the BMT "Steels" and were dimensionally identacle, but had the traditional vestibule cab arrangement with end doors and one center door/side. Some did end up on the BMT Culver service after WWII. The SIRT moodified R-44's were all originally built for subway service and saw subway service. They and the original cars from B&O days are the only electric cars the SIRT has had as fixed assignment cars. But there was a period when several Long Island RR regular post-WWII mu cars were loaned to the SIRT before being returned to the LIRR and converted to trailer coaches for diesel train service.
Are you certain the SIRT modified R-44's have a cab at each end? This must be a further modification, for when I saw them shortly after they were assigned to the SIRT they were still married pairs.
daveklepperThe SIRT modified R-44's were all originally built for subway service and saw subway service
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Cars 388-399 were modified Subway cars sent over in 1986. The other SIRT cars were built for SIRT service and never operated on the Subway.
daveklepperBut there was a period when several Long Island RR regular post-WWII mu cars were loaned to the SIRT before being returned to the LIRR and converted to trailer coaches for diesel train service.
The MP72s.
daveklepperAre you certain the SIRT modified R-44's have a cab at each end? This must be a further modification, for when I saw them shortly after they were assigned to the SIRT they were still married pairs.
No R-44 has cabs at both ends. The A cars have one cab, the B cars have zero. The Subway cars were operated in A-B-B-A sets, with the only two cabs facing out (like FTs). They are also all single cars, having all of the necessary appliances. SIRT only has A cars, so sets aren't needed.
SIRT cars operate on the BMT lines. Saw them myself. They ran on the Culver service. This was part of the effort to rid the system of wood el cars. By shifting some "Steels" from Culver to West End, they allowed West End Expresses to run through to Coney Island during the rush, eliminating the el cars with subway shoes that ran Bay Parkway - CI during the rush.
Before Culver was cut back to 9th - Ditmas shuttle, the SIRT cars ran over the Manhattan Bridge and through the Nassau Loop and Montague St. tunnel to Brooklyn. They were gone by the time of the Cristie St. Connection. On the Culver Shuttle, they were replaced by "steel C-types," as we called them, IRT Low-V's with C-type sills to match B-Div platforms.
You would not have seen them if you were not in South Brooklyn during rush hours.
Thanks for the details on the SIRT R-44's. The cab arrangemene checks with my memory, both on the A train (ABBA) and on the SIRT (AA).
daveklepper SIRT cars operate on the BMT lines. Saw them myself. They ran on the Culver service. This was part of the effort to rid the system of wood el cars. By shifting some "Steels" from Culver to West End, they allowed West End Expresses to run through to Coney Island during the rush, eliminating the el cars with subway shoes that ran Bay Parkway - CI during the rush. Before Culver was cut back to 9th - Ditmas shuttle, the SIRT cars ran over the Manhattan Bridge and hrough the Nassau Loop and Montague St. tunnel to Brooklyn. They were gone by the time of the Cristie St. Connection. On the Culver Shuttle, they were replaced by "steel C-types," as we called them, IRT Low-V's with C-type sills to match B-Div platforms. You would not have seen them if you were not in South Brooklyn during rush hours.
Before Culver was cut back to 9th - Ditmas shuttle, the SIRT cars ran over the Manhattan Bridge and hrough the Nassau Loop and Montague St. tunnel to Brooklyn. They were gone by the time of the Cristie St. Connection. On the Culver Shuttle, they were replaced by "steel C-types," as we called them, IRT Low-V's with C-type sills to match B-Div platforms.
No argument at all! I thought you were still referring to the R-44s at the time. I'm glad to talk with someone that was able to see this all first-hand.
Thanks. But to clear up one point. I thought the R-44 sent to SIRT had originally operated on the B Division, and then were modified and sent to SIRT, after all R-46's were in service. I did not know of any ordered specially for SIRT. At the time the R-44's were running the entire A service, SIRT was still using the original equpment, reduced in numbers because of the equipment sent to the BMT and the abandonment of Arlington (North Shore) and South Beach (branch) services.
The first Subway R-44s were placed into service in early 1972, while the SIRT ME-1s (original equipment) weren't retired until 1973, so there was a bit of overlap. The SIRT cars were built after the Subway cars, and were the last St. Louis Car Co. cars. They have GE propulsion, the Subway cars had Westinghouse propulsion. 400-435, and 436-466(even) were built for the SIRT, and are numbered following the Subway R44s.
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