does rail construction cost more than highway?

[daveklepper]

That is why the 22000 - 25000 passengers a day figure is often used.   If bridges are required, they will be required for both road and rail.   Ditto tunnels.   Ditto purchase of real-estate.   But buses on a single lane of road can handle 22000-25000 passengers past a given point.   If you need a four lane highway to handle the traffic, needed if you will  use it for general traffic as well as buses, then obvioiusly you have about double the cost of the double-track rail line.  For two lanes vs. two tracks, there really is not that much difference in first cost costruction between light rail and heavy rail, or between either and two highway lanes, especially if you want grade separation.   Abovr 25000 per hour past a point, you definitely have to go to rail, and then capacity can go to 100,000 with heavy rail or about 40,000 with light rail.

[PNWRMNM]

Remember the quoted amount does NOT include real estate, and may not include utility relocation costs.

Mac

[John WR]

I cannot think of a single road project I've ever seen where mobility with roads has been compared to mobility with rail transit.   But I agree such a discussion would be interesting.   

[CMStPnP]

gardendance

http://www.95revive.com/girard-avenue-interchange-news.aspx

"The Pennsylvania Department of Transportation recently awarded a $211.7 million contract to James J. Anderson Construction Co., Inc. of Philadelphia to rebuild and improve 1.5 miles of northbound Interstate 95 between the Girard Avenue and Allegheny Avenue interchanges in Philadelphia.

...

Under this contract, crews will rebuild and widen the northbound side of I-95 from Columbia Avenue to just south of the Allegheny Avenue interchange.

...

The final two improvement projects are in engineering design. One project is for the reconstruction and widening of southbound I-95 from just south of the Allegheny Avenue Interchange to Columbia Avenue, and the other for rebuilding and widening I-95 between Race Street and Shackamaxon Street."

I figure that's $140 million per mile, and if I understand it correctly it's to add a lane. They also mention ramps and interchange work. But they also say it's northbound only, can we expect southbound to cost the same, making it $280 million per mile?

How much does rail construction cost? I don't think I've ever heard figures over $100 million per mile, and I think those have included stations, parking lots and rolling stock, and usually double track for new or extended lines, not just to add another track to an existing line.

I think your asking only half the question.   The other half of the question should be how much does highway construction improve mobility over railway construction.     Maxing out the mobility return for the dollars spent is what will drive GDP and increased GDP is what returns more tax money to the treasury.

So I would like to see a discussion across those lines by Economists somewhere, someday.

[Overmod]

The situation becomes a bit clearer if you know exactly what the stretch of 95 around Girard Avenue looks like, and can remember the fun and games at the Girard Avenue exit while the elevated highway ended there during the time the Society Hill construction was going on (which seemed like almost forever at the time).

This is not just 'adding a lane' in the sense of widening a roadbed.  They are rebuilding five bridges ... first to get the new lane open, then to re-do each lane separately, sequentially, to keep 95 at three-lane capacity during the construction.  I suspect that's quite a bit of the expense right there. 

Railroad construction for 'equivalent' capacity might be only two lanes (think capacity of the NYCR), and the elevated substructure could probably be made in prefab sections to keep blockage of the cross streets to a minimum.  You'd still have some incremental abutment work, but might be able to run bidirectional traffic via one track while the other was under repair -- not something thinkable on an Interstate!

I don't know if it would be cheaper or more expensive to design top-down track to HAL standards while you're designing the elevated infrastructure, but factor that in as appropriate.

[gardendance]

http://www.95revive.com/girard-avenue-interchange-news.aspx

"The Pennsylvania Department of Transportation recently awarded a $211.7 million contract to James J. Anderson Construction Co., Inc. of Philadelphia to rebuild and improve 1.5 miles of northbound Interstate 95 between the Girard Avenue and Allegheny Avenue interchanges in Philadelphia.

...

Under this contract, crews will rebuild and widen the northbound side of I-95 from Columbia Avenue to just south of the Allegheny Avenue interchange.

...

The final two improvement projects are in engineering design. One project is for the reconstruction and widening of southbound I-95 from just south of the Allegheny Avenue Interchange to Columbia Avenue, and the other for rebuilding and widening I-95 between Race Street and Shackamaxon Street."

I figure that's $140 million per mile, and if I understand it correctly it's to add a lane. They also mention ramps and interchange work. But they also say it's northbound only, can we expect southbound to cost the same, making it $280 million per mile?

How much does rail construction cost? I don't think I've ever heard figures over $100 million per mile, and I think those have included stations, parking lots and rolling stock, and usually double track for new or extended lines, not just to add another track to an existing line.