Details sketchy but LIRR train rescued a NJT train stranded in Hudson River tunnel due to downed wire. This is a good result of Amtrak re installing the third rail in the tunnels.
http://www.weather.com/
PRR installed third rail in the tunnels when they were first bored. I don't think that it was ever removed since it was needed to support the wire train.
Third rail was the first electrification and was never removed...an extension of the LIRR system. But LIRR also has dual diesels which could make the reach.
For more on NYP and the electrification, be sure to see PBS's American Experience in February, check your local listings.
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The two stories don't jive with each other...it appears there were tree different trains involved with power failure of one kind or another...the Mid Town Direct, a morning train from Dover to NYP lost power at Kearney on the Morristown line ans was dragged into Hoboken.. Another one was a Trenton bound train coming out of NYP which had to be dragged back into NYP and the third a late evening train going into NYP and was stopped when the cat fell. This latter train was the one pulled into NYP by the LIRR "train" but it is not clear if the LIRR train was a dual locomotive or an MU train. Was this a reach by a locomotive pushing cars to the NJT to drag in or a set of MU's used to drag or did the locomotive actually go to the NJT train and couple on? Different sets of equipment with different couplers, etc. brings up lots of questions of how it was actually done. Wire on the ground had to be no factor as power was most certainly turned off; third rail being on (PRR left the 3rd rail in through the tunnel when the wire was strung...didn't know it was still live!) put a certain danger there for all on the ground. Or was the diesel power used for the emergency? Lots of things could have happened, the bad stuff didn't, but what good stuff did happen?
Amtrak ETT says main tracks 1 and 2 are equipped for DC electrical operation between A and West Portal North River Tunnels.
henry6 but it is not clear if the LIRR train was a dual locomotive or an MU train.
Whatever it was, it was NOT an MU train as those systems were quite incompatible with other equipments. It must have been a dual mode diesel. NJT does not have third rail equipped locomotives, most AMTK locomotives are over heat power as well, only the Empire trains would have a locomotive with shoes, and as owner of the station, it would have been their responsibility to clear the train. That LIRR did it means that their equipment was the most handy at the moment.
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As Lion said, the MUs have differing systems, particularly different couplers. So, probably a DM30AC.
Interestingly enough, we just had a conversation on the Locomotive forum wondering if the third rail was still active in the Hudson tubes, and this shows that it is. We were wondering if NJT could have bought third rail dual modes for NYP that would be cheaper than the ALP-DPs and yet still operate the same services.
I am sure they possibly could have...but would the off the shelf DM30AC match up to NJT cars without revamping the circuits. And with the already two electric systems they have to contend with it is probably better they just work to contend with that and not seek troubles elsewhere. Also because I don't think the 3rd rail extends out of the tunnels changing on the fly out of and especially into the dark holes could be unsettling to say the least if there was a problem of connecting and converting...especially from diesel mode to electric inside the tunnel.
I'll let you read the discussion here instead of further hijacking this.
A couple notes, though:
The DM30ACs were custom designed for LIRR, and had the teething issues representative of this.
My thought was that a four party convention of NJT, LIRR, Amtrak and Metro North could have put out a bid to design a locomotive that works on all four systems. This would replace the DM30ACs and P32AC-DMs, and bring down costs, but it didn't happen.
The third rail could be extended out from the tunnels, but your point about multiple voltages is very important.
Very good thoughts, I appreciate them!
There are adapter couplers and air hoses available at Penn Station for just about any emergency and any combination of equipment. In addition all NJT and Metro-North West-of-Hudson carry adapter couplers for NJT mus. All Metro North, Shore Line Line East, LIRR, and New York and Atlantic (freight) locomotives carry adapter couplers and air hoses for LIRR and Metro North mus (same couplers and brakes). This includes air brakes. Also, this is true of Providence and Worcester and CSX locomotives that regularly operate on MN lines. I do not know about Amtrak or CP.
NorthWest I'll let you read the discussion here instead of further hijacking this. A couple notes, though: The DM30ACs were custom designed for LIRR, and had the teething issues representative of this. My thought was that a four party convention of NJT, LIRR, Amtrak and Metro North could have put out a bid to design a locomotive that works on all four systems. This would replace the DM30ACs and P32AC-DMs, and bring down costs, but it didn't happen. The third rail could be extended out from the tunnels, but your point about multiple voltages is very important. Very good thoughts, I appreciate them!
You also have to take into the politics, the parochialisms, self pride, differences, geography, corporate cultures, likes, dislikes, hates, jealousies, fiefdom like guarding, and delineations here. And thats just about where to have lunch for the first meeting. I kid. But those first steps could be the most difficult to make. And as I said, the west of Hudson catenary and philosophies are different than the east of Hudson third rail and philosophies. NJT bought a dualie tagged onto an order by Montreal commuter agency; I am led to believe Montreal's units have yet to be accepted for use while NJT's still not fully accepted by Amtrak into NYP (some have on an emergency basis with no apparent problems but still the green light has not been lit). And, as I also noted, the power source voltages are a problem but so is the way it is used inside the locomotives; it is therefore easier to go different than go the same.
Yet, to sound contradictory, I am a firm believer in a rail system as a regional system between Shore LIne East, MNRR, LIRR, NJT, SEPTA and Amtrak with one seat rides from the distant points to distant points and one ticket rides and real connections with integrity. The commuter roads would still operate their commuter trains but could be relieved of some express services; Amtrak could be relieved of some of it's Northeast Service and concentrate more on inter city and Acela,; the regional would fill the in between market. Wherever possible there could be equipment run throughs so equipment doesn't have to deadhead someplace or lie in a yard all day...all kinds of things are possible if they all would sit down and hash it out. I think there could be a better rationalized, structured, and operated rail transportation system for the region with better service to the riders.
henry6You also have to take into the politics, the parochialisms, self pride, differences, geography, corporate cultures, likes, dislikes, hates, jealousies, fiefdom like guarding, and delineations here. And thats just about where to have lunch for the first meeting. I kid. But those first steps could be the most difficult to make. And as I said, the west of Hudson catenary and philosophies are different than the east of Hudson third rail and philosophies.
All of this is very true, which I did not adequately affirm in my earlier post. My apologies.
AMT (Montreal) does have theirs in service, IIRC for about a year, after the problems were resolved. I didn't know about them not being allowed into NYP, thanks. That was what they were purchased for...
You might also want to consider MBTA, MARC and VRE as part of your regional alliance?
Amtrak's and MN's dual service locomotives are designed for only limited operation on third rail. Just to enter and leave Penn and GCT respectively, The NJT and Montreal are designed for full service under catenary with HP and TE equal or exceeding that in the diesel mode. Two different applcations.
Raritan line service into Penn is starting so NJT dual-service locos must now have been accepted by Amtrak to enter PENN. Or do they change engines at Newark?
CPM500 mentioned on the other thread that the LIRR DM30ACs can use third rail for as long as they want without trouble. You are right about the P32AC-DMs.
Isn't NYP the only place that NJT *needs* dual modes?
There's also a pocket track at the west end of the Secaucus platforms for a locomotive but I've never seen one there. And, yes, Raritan Valley trains are supposed to start one seat peak hour rides to and from NYP soon. This could also be done with trains from Bay Head (ta da! "Come Ride the New Broker from Bay Head to Penn Station and back without changing cigars!"), Hackettstown (ta da! "Come ride the new Lakeland Express from the high lakes of New Jersey under the Hudson to New York City!"), in addition to the trains from High Bridge. Great marketing--i.e. "service"--opportunities for NJT. And remember NJT dualies are actually triple power: diesel and two electric modes. However, pantographs can only be raised and lowered when stopped, not on the fly. (I remember NH GCT bound electric engines pulled the pans down when they flipped the shoes into position and vice versa outbound at Woodhaven.)
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