aegrotatioCould the "railroad houses" possibly be the houses you could order as kits from the Sears Roebuck catalog and have delivered by rail? We have many of these houses along the old Washington and Old Dominion route here in northern Virginia.
"Railroad houses" could mean quite a few things, from railroad-operated or affiliated boarding houses for train crews, mail-order Sears houses as you suggest, or just plain 'ol houses where the railroaders lived.
I've been to Waldwick NJ, actually it's been 16-plus years ago, and trackside there are some buildings that suggested to me "boarding house".
Northern New Jersey is full of old houses that look like they may have come from the Sears catalog. Lady Firestorm's fascinated by the Sears houses and has quite a collection of books pertaining to same.
I suppose you you contact the Waldwick NJ historic society (if there is one) and ask where the term "railroad house" comes from.
Hello John and "CH"!
There certainly are archeological digs here in Virginia. Most on the more famous sites like Jamestown or the Civil War battlefields are usually done under the auspices of the National Park Service or various state agencies. Some are done on private property by the various colleges down here. and yes, the stuff keeps coming out of the ground!
Occasionally a Civil War relic hunter with a metal detector will find something he really wasn't looking for, such as the remains of a Civil War soldier in what was a hastily dug grave. It's quite moving what happens next. If it's a Confederate soldier the state of Virginia takes over, the remains lie in state in the state capitol, and then are re-buried with full military honors in the Confederate section of Richmonds Hollywood Cemetary. If he's Union, the US Army takes over and he's re-buried in one of the Federal cemetarys in the Richmond area.
Some of the old-timers around here remember finding Civil War artifacts during the spring ploughing. Bayonets, belt buckles, buttons, you name it.
A word of warning to all: don't even think about showing up on an NPS Civil War battlefield park with a metal detector! The rangers will probably shoot you on sight!
I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but when I go to a Civil War show I'm amazed at the staggering amounts of bullets, cannonballs, shells, and shell fragments and shrapnel that the relic hunters pull out of the ground here. Just incredible. I'm amazed anyone lived through a Civil War battle considering the amount of metal that was whizzing around.
John WR If General Grant didn't drink for the bottle you saw no doubt he drank from bottles like it. What I wonder is if there are any archeological digs around Richmond or Petersburg. Do you know?
If General Grant didn't drink for the bottle you saw no doubt he drank from bottles like it. What I wonder is if there are any archeological digs around Richmond or Petersburg. Do you know?
I 'd be surprised if there weren't any when you consider that over 400 years have passed since the settlement of Jamestown.
Hi John!
Speaking of bourbon, it's kind of a thrill to go to a Civil War show down here in Richmond and see original 1860's bourbon bottle's for sale. The re-enactors just love this stuff.
I get a kick out of seeing a Civil War vintage bourbon bottle and wondering if General Grant drained it. It's amazing some of those things are still around.
Wayne
Wayne,
I decided to re-read Maury Klein's "The Life and Legend of Jay Gould." I'm glad I did because Klein is a lot more tentative than I recall. Right now I have finished most of Gould's tenure at the Erie (but not quite all--he is still the President--but Klein is now writing about the famous gold corner.
Klein describes Gould as having an almost mystical quality to divine where the market was going and put his money in the right place. But it is also clear that Gould studied the data in great detail. I suspect he was a real down to earth guy and just did his homework with a lot more care than almost everyone else. Almost everyone. He wasn't the only person making a lot of money in the 1860's until he died in 1892. I wish I could sit down over a little bourbon with maybe a dash of water and discuss him.
John
Glad you brought that up John, I'm gonna have me some "Virginia Gentleman" right now!
I have not read Grant's memoirs. However, the fact that he pushed himself to finish them before he died so his wife would not be left without support certainly says something about the man. What I have read is that Grant saw himself as the man who won the Civil War for the Union while living on a modest salary and while other men had made fortunes precisely because he had won the war. Therefore he considered it only fair for him and others close to him now shared in this enormous sum of money the war created. But the truth is I really don't know what to think of the guy. Certainly he had s decent streak an he was conned by swindlers. But I can't rule out his being corrupt too. But I don't feel any sense of moral outrage about that, though.
Jay Gould was certainly unpopular in his own day. But I can't say I find him scary. And I find things to like about his business practices although there are certainly things to dislike too. Most of all I seem him as a poor boy who was clear about his own goal: To become rich. He accomplished that goal by cheating investors more than any thing else although he treated his employees pretty badly too. But you are right about one aspect of his being scary. His trains were really unsafe and a lot of people lost their lives because of it. So once again I take the strong position that I don't know what to think.
I guess that is not much of a rebuttal of your ideas. Perhaps bourbon would clear my mind.
No, I can't agree about Ulysses S. Grant being a corrupt individual. From all I've read about him it seems he was a thoroughly decent man who as president had a knack for selecting people to work for him with rather questionable ethics, to say the least. Even after he left office he got involved with a Wall Street swindler who left him bankrupt. But that's the trouble with a lot of good people, they make the mistake of thinking everyone else is as good as they are.
I think one of the reasons Gould gets a bad rap is that, compared to some of the other "Robber Barons" of the time he's just not a very likeable individual. Jim Fisk is likeable, Commodore Vanderbilt is likeable in a "tough but not mean" kind of way. Jay Gould just isn't. As a matter of fact he's a bit scary.
By the way, have you ever read Grant's memoirs? What an enjoyable book! The way Grant wrote it it's as if you're sitting in a room with him, with some cigars and a bottle of bourbon, and just having a "BS" session. He must have been a very chatty individual once you got to know him.
I completely agree with you that at home Gould was a perfect husband. It is his business behavior that comes into question. Some months ago I read The Life and Legend of Jay Gould by Maury Klein and that is the source of almost all of my own knowledge.
Plenty of people hated Jay Gould during his own lifetime. Klein makes the point that it was his career at the Erie that first won him his reputation. (I've also read A Chapter of Erie by Charles Francis Adams). But in his war with Cornelius Vanderbilt it seems to be both men were pretty much two peas in a pod; they both used the same kinds of tactics. Once Gould got control of the Erie, though, he was pretty high handed with British investors.
The other thing that got him his bad reputation was the Gold Corner. However, based on Klein and some other stuff I've read it is not at all clear to me that Gould was really behind the Gold Corner at all. Ulysses S. Grant may well have been the person who got his brother in law Able Corwin to ask Gould for help in starting the thing. Grant was a pretty corrupt guy too.
Most of all he seems to me to have been a man of his time. A lot of powerful people were pretty harsh in those days. Gould certainly was but I wonder if he was more so than many others.
That's OK John, in all the historys I've read of the Gould / Fisk shenanigans I've never seen a picture of it either. Possibly none exists, but if it did I'm sure what we'd see is kind of a generic mid-19th Century building.
Interesting man, Jay Gould. a real "Jeckyll and Hyde" character. In business he was as ruthless as they came, but at home he was the perfect family man. Great husband, loving father, you'd never suspect he was the perfect pirate.
I tried to find a picture of the Hotel Taylor where Jay Gould and Jim Fisk hid out to escape the clutches of the New York Supreme Court Justice Cornelius Vanderbilt bribed to issue a warrant for their arrest. But I couldn't fine it.
daveklepper Wayne, then you ought to retire to Jerusalem!
Wayne, then you ought to retire to Jerusalem!
Holy smoke Dave, I'd overdose! They'd find me passed out on the Via Dolorosa! Luckily Virginia (where I live now) has more than enough to keep me occupied.
You're welcome John! I've always had a passion for history, and New Jersey, especially the northern part, has so much to offer and so many stories to tell, from the very beginnings of the US to the present day. Much has been lost of course, but much remains, more than most people think, from old railroad stations to a house in Paramus with a Hessian bullet hole through the door.
All people have to do is get out there and look.
Ever see that show "Pawn Stars"? One of the characters on the show once said "I love it when something historic comes in the shop. This is Las Vegas. There's no history here." Sad.
I couldn't live anywhere where nothing historic happened.
Pajrr,
And thanks for your good work in Mahwah as well as reminding me of the railroad museum.
When my kids (now in their 30's) were young I remember visiting the caboose but I do not recall the actual museum. But that was many years ago. Now I have grandchildren. It is time for a return visit.
Thanks for your historical notes, Wayne. I was born in 1939 so I have no memories from before the war. Most of all I agree we should enjoy the history we have and appreciate it. Railroads are very much part of the history of much of New Jersey.
Oh, you're a volunteer at the Old Station Museum! I've heard about your organization. I have GOT to get there one of these days, maybe my next trip north, whenever that is. Love to see what you've got pertaining to the old "Weary Erie."
I'll definately contact you if it looks like I can't get in during your normal business hours, although not wanting to be a bother regular hours are what I'd shoot for. Won't be right away though.
Hey Everyone, I work as a volunteer at the Mahwah (NJ) Old Station Museum. We are in the original 1871 Mahwah Train Station (Paterson & Ramapo RR) adjacent to the current (1914 Erie) Mahwah Station. We also have a 1929 wooden Erie caboose. Come visit us some Sunday afternoon Memorial Day through Oct. We have some very interesting items I don't think many people know about. Contact me through here and I can arrange to get you in at other times.
Quite true pajrr! I should have known all that. Actually I did, but it slipped my mind. Seems like nowadays one thought comes in and pushes the others out. Strange...
However, the Ridgewood station WAS an Erie project. And even though 'roads like the Pascack Valley Line and the Northern Branch did start out as separate entities, some of the stations were built post Erie acquisition.
No point flogging this, we should just enjoy the surviving stations whoever built them!
In response to some stations not looking "very Erie", one has to consider that the ERIE never built any lines in NJ. It was not allowed to under its original charter. The routes between Suffern and Jersey City were actually built by 4 different railroads. Todays Pascack Valley Line was actually 2 more railroads. The Northern Branch (Tenefly, Demarest) was another railroad. The Erie took them over in the late 1880's, so stations built before that time were not built by the Erie.
Hi John! A few things about the old Tenafly station, not necessarily "railroady"...
My father was from Tenafly, born in 1928, and he told me that Tenafly station was the first place he ever saw exterior Christmas lights displayed when he was a boy. I asked him once when people started putting up Christmas lights, and he said you really didn't see too much of them before the war. In the Thirties no-one had any money, and during the war you couldn't get them anyway. The real era of Christmas lights started post 1945, at least in the Jersey suburbs.
When you said the Tenafly station doesn't look too "Erie" you were right. Tenafly residents in the 1870's wanted a suitable "gateway" to the town so in addition to commissioning the distinguished architect Daniel Atwood to design it the town paid for two-thirds of the construction cost. Pretty ironic, since most Tenafly residents now want nothing to do with the proposed commuter light rail!
Once commuter traffic ended on the Northern Branch the survival of Tenafly station was in doubt, but now it's a historic landmark and in very little danger, if any. It's even featured in a Rutgers University press book on Bergen County architecture.
pajrrThe Erie Station in Waldwick is getting restored by the town to be used as a town museum.
Thanks for the information. I started commuting in New Jersey from Waldwick in the late 70's. the Erie was gone but Conrail still had a station agent there. It is not a commuter station because it is on the wrong side of the tracks. According to local people Waldwick started as a railroad town and many of the nearby homes are "railroad houses." I don't know if they means they were built by the Erie or for Erie employees. However, there are still people whose grandparents came to Waldwick to work for the railroad.
As I recall the station it was a single room plus the station agent's office. They was a single naked light build in the center and a leaky coal stove in the center of the space with benches around the edges. It is good to hear that the borough finally got its act together and is saving it. There is also an old switch tower which has been saved too. I used to cross the tracks right by that switch tower. The between track fence ended. But please don't tell anyone I told you this.
Thanks Wayne,
I am familiar with Ridgewood and have taken the train there many times. When I used Ridgewood Station it was one of very few suburban stations that NJT kept a ticket agent in. I was living in Waldwick in those days. However, the interior of Ridgewood is not at all authentic.
I looked at your Northern Branch stations. They are so fancy that I bet the towns built them except for the one in Piermont, NY. They don't look like Erie designs at all.
But the Watchung Avenue Station is an authentic Erie design and a number of similar ones were built. And the interior is grimy but unchanged from the day it opened in 1901. Jay Gould should be alive to see what his railroad is today.
Thanks for your input pajrr! Actually, I've been to Ridgewood, and it's not THAT bad. Certainly beats the alternative of total demolition and replacement with "bus stop" stations. I'm glad as much of the 1914 fabric remains as it does. Could have been worse, a LOT worse!
For a real treat, check this website:
www.subwaynut.com
It's not just subways. NJ Transit rail, and I mean ALL of it, gets a very good treatment. Check it out!
The Ridgewood Station is gorgeous, except for the fact it has been destroyed architecturally by having to install high-level platforms to make it handicap accessible. I understand it had to be rebuilt that way, but it just ruined it from an aesthetic point of view. The Erie Station in Waldwick is getting restored by the town to be used as a town museum. It has a brand new roof and it looks like it will be great when it is finished. Several stations along the Pascack Valley Line are in use as private businesses. Rutherford Station just got restored, too.
for some gems of old Erie stations check the following website:
www.wislew.com/nbstations.htm
This is actually a fansite of the old Northern Branch (Erie) railroad which I'm sure you're familiar with. There's some real goodies surviving, such as the stations in Tenafly and Demarest.
Ridgewood NJ has a fantastic old station dating from around 1914. It's more of a station complex and its done in a Spanish Mission style of architecture. It's basically unchanged from the time it was built. I can't find a picture of that one to post, however. Actually, there is a picture of the complex on Wikepedia but it doesn't do the station justice.
Lots of gems in Northern New Jersey for those fans who get out and look.
And Happy New Year to you and your family!
PS: For those who'd like a look, here's Johns Watchung Avenue station...
www.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Watchung_Ave.jpg
Enjoy! Cool lookin', ain't it?
PPS: OK, I kept lookin', try this for Ridgewood Station...
www.subwaynut.com/njt/ridgewood/index.html
See what I mean?
When New Jersey Transit took over commuter rail it abandoned most of the stations on the line, especially the smaller way stations. One such station is the Watchung Avenue (formerly Park Street) station in Montclair. A few days ago I learned the station clings to life and is a witness to a bygone era of commuter railroads.
A plaque on the station identifies it as a Queen Anne style building that is typical of many Erie stations. Approaching it the first thing you see is a roof with wide eves and an open porch at one end where the roof extends and where today NJT has its ticket vending machine and a bicycle rack. A sign on the door says it is open during the daytime hours. Entering you find a warm waiting room surrounded with steam radiators. There must be a working boiler in the basement. Another sign says the station is maintained by the municipality of Montclair. The windows are sound and a recently broken one had been repaired. The waiting room is abut 20 feet square (based on by eyeballed measuring) with a single double sided bench in the center. On the left the door to the ticket office stands open with the original counters and storage drawers inside. On the right is a lounge and a unisex restroom. A single light bulb that is totally inauthentic to the structure hangs in the center. Other than that the station has never been renovated. Parts of the walls are wood paneling and parts are beaded boards. The floor is wood and the ceiling appears to be wood. Many layers of paint coat the walls which are now dingy with age. The floor is not simply dirty; there is litter and trash--old papers along with leaves and sticks. But you can sit on the bench and think of the days when stations such as thins lined the Erie's tracks carrying commuters to work.
New Jersey Transit has maintained and actually restored some larger stations but the smaller ones have been left to varying fates. It is good to see Montclair accepts responsibility for this particular station. If would be better if it could be swept out occasionally and the trash picked up. But it has a good roof and the structure appears to be adequately maintained although it barely reaches that standard. Anyone in the area who wants to get a sense of what early rail commuting was like would enjoy a visit to the Watchung Avenue station.
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