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STL COUNTY PD ARREST PASSENGER TAKING VIDEO - See video!

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STL COUNTY PD ARREST PASSENGER TAKING VIDEO - See video!
Posted by scottn941 on Tuesday, November 5, 2013 11:20 PM

This is a significant video for all in the rail enthusiast community.  It seems - based on the circumstances in the video - that security personnel who are poorly trained on Metro's photography policy escalate a problem when none apparently exists - and the price a citizen has to pay as a result: arrest.  All railfans need to know their rights and how to stand up for them, when confronted.  I've had many unpleasant experiences myself, but thankfully, none quite this extreme.  Enjoy, and please feel free share with your friends on Facebook and the rest of the rail fan / transit fan community so they can be better prepared should something like this happen to them.  Regards, -Scott N., St. Louis

http://fox2now.com/2013/11/04/man-arrested-for-recording-video-at-metrolink-youtube-post-goes-viral/

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Posted by henry6 on Wednesday, November 6, 2013 8:21 AM

Unless this guy was out looking for trouble, he should have inquired of the Authority as to what their policy is concerning photography and asked for a written copy.  He then should have courteously shown the policy paper to the police.  If the police insisted on arresting him, then he'd be able to prove something.  This way he proves only that he likes to argue.  Sorry, arrogance is not the way to fight this ignorance by police.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by scottn941 on Wednesday, November 6, 2013 9:09 AM

That's silly.  When you go on an Amtrak trip, or ride commuter/transit and you plan to take some video for your own pleasure, it's ridiculous to assume you are automatically in a police state and should have to have printouts ready, in hand..  America is a free country!  Metro has been called on the carpet before on this, which explains why their policy is worded the way it is - which states the videographer has every right to be doing what he was doing.  And because this isn't the first time, it's abundantly clear their rent-a-cops have not recieved the proper training.  And if your morning commute ended in an arrest for doing nothing wrong, as is the case here, you could lose your job being a no-show at work, so I can fully understand this man's "arrogance" as you have it!  I would be to!  

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, November 6, 2013 9:45 AM

I don't think arrogance is right in any circumstance.   I would simply say, before you arrest me, could you please contact your superior and ask him to get a reading on just what your company's policy is?  He can do this with his office computer by bringing up your company's website and asking the question.   I am askiing you to do this, because i have checked before coming here to photograph, and I know your company permits what I am doing.   I don't have a printout of the policy, but I have read it.  Pleae ask your supervisor to read it and inform you of what is says.   I think this might have worked under the circumstances, and would have been worth a try.

Here in israel, things are tougher, and railfans visiting should first visit the main office still in temporary buildings next to the "Central Station" in Tel Aviv for photo permits.  It is wise to have evidence of membership in a rail organization, or some job-related identification to show you have a legitimate reason for photographing, in addiiton, of course, to your passport with photograph .  This applies only to Israel Railways and not to Jerusalem Light Rail or the Carmelite Funicular Subway in Haifa.   I have never been hasteld photographing either of these two local transportation operations.

And even with the permit, photographing bridges is prohibited.   Also aircraft runways adjacent to the RoW at Lod.  You will be told that when you pick up your permit.

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Posted by scottn941 on Wednesday, November 6, 2013 9:54 AM

Dave - Metro was already taken to court over its policy and as expected, it was revised to its current form due to the US constitution, further compounding the obvious lack of training by security exhibited here.  All across the USA there are numerous examples of law enforcement overstepping its boundaries when it comes to public photography.  Just ask Steve Berry - publisher of Railfan & Railroad magazine.

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Posted by henry6 on Wednesday, November 6, 2013 10:13 AM

You know what?  I like the idea of photo permits.  It can go a long ways in absolving the railroad of any problems arising, it can define what can and can't be done in the name  of security and safety, and it can identify those who break the rules and make things difficult for the rest of us.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by narig01 on Wednesday, November 6, 2013 11:36 AM
I will start this by saying as of this moment I have not seen the vid eo.

The way I have conducted myself when confronted by law enforcement or a security guard is 1. Be polite. One gains nothing by being antagonistic.
2. Be firm. One can stand ones ground even when faced with the threat if overwhelming use of force.

Dave I can understand the problems in your neck of the woods. But can you imagine what kind of reaction someone might get if they were say Hindu (or from the other side of the fence) . There are a lot of railfans in both India and Pakistan. And some years back I remember reading of the problems some Saudi(I think) railfans had in Charlotte,NC. I wonder about railfans in the Peoples Republic of China.
In late 2001 I can also tell the tail of one occasion in where I had just picked up a cargo and was outside the plant when what should wander in but an unrebuilt GP-9(and in perfect lighting conditions). I started taking pics (I was outside the plant on a public street) . The next thing 2 security guards walked up carrying shotguns (unloaded they couldn't find the ammunition) . Then the local police. And they were trying to be very officious. I explained what I was taking pictures of. Next the towns Chief of Police showed up. Then the State Police.
Needless to say quite a crowd. The next person to show was also law enforcement but explained what a railfan is and who foamers are. The next time I was in the town I had stopped for lunch and the Chief was there along with the State Troopers. He told me they were still a little on edge at the time and thanked me for my patience. That day I also found out from security their side of things.
I have left out a number of details intentionally. The point is I didn't lose my film or get arrested or detained. Just a lot of talk and time.
In the St Louis matter it sounds like someone was trying to get arrested. If you really want to be arrested the police can be very obliging. In some large cities you can even arrange for the police to arrest you on camera for the 6 o'clock news.

Thx and Rgds IGN
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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Thursday, November 7, 2013 8:23 AM

This is not limited to railroads.  In our increasingly paranoid society, people photographing almost anything are immediately considered suspicious.

Dave

Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, November 7, 2013 10:08 AM

India has good relations with Israel.   Not too many Palestiniains are railfans (have never met one), but some Jordanians are and visit and are treated with respect and can get a photo permit.   I do recall one smile on an inspector's face when he saw my Arab-sector Jerusalem multi-ride bus ticket in my identification folder, but a smile is all it got.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, November 9, 2013 10:54 PM

The first thing I see in the news story below the you-tube video frame, is that this guy is an internet radio host.  Why am I skeptical now?  I see the first Metro person to confront him is identified as a "worker", not a security person.  Then when the police arrive, they are in the middle of a confrontation between a Metro worker (who they know should be there) and some other unknown person.  When the Police ask for ID, he refuses.  It seems he should not have been surprised he was arrested, since he had previously been arrested for a similar incident.  While there may be a policy to generally allow photography, if an employee asks you to stop, I believe the appropriate thing to do is to stop and then ask to speak to his bosses, or otherwise follow-up.  If the police show up, then thinking that you are going to take the law into your own hands, is just dumb.  In any case, I don't see how this episode with a spotlight seeker/media producer has much to do with the average railfan.

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Posted by Sunnyland on Tuesday, November 12, 2013 12:48 PM

I live here too and heard nothing about this.  I don't video, but used to do 8mm movies "back in the day" and never had a problem. But the country has changed a lot since then.  I have one of the BNSF fan cards I printed out from website and now I've heard they have become more strict about filming. But since I just take photos, have had no problems. 

 

I will share this on FB, because a number of my "friends" are local too. But this kind of thing can happen anywhere today. 

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Posted by Sunnyland on Tuesday, November 12, 2013 12:49 PM

I just read the post about it being someone from the media, so they might have been trying to set something up.  I can't watch it here at work but will check it out at home. 

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