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The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Thanks, I needed that!
All the conductors I've talked to are kind and helpful, despite the lack of respect from passengers.
great posting....thanks
See, the subway in New York can be fun!
CJtrainguy See, the subway in New York can be fun!
It is amazing how many times I've said that to fellow railfans over the years and they don''t believe me. But those who have been along on one of our Ridewithmehenry trips have changed their attitude when they discover the intricacies of the system, the trackwork, the structures, and the frequency of trains and find that this is railroading in a whole different way!
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
The video is very interesting. But it raises a question or two in my mind.
Other than operating the doors, what are the duties of the conductor? Also, given the level of automation in most other activities, could the doors not be operated by the driver? Does the subway train really need a conductor?
I lived in New York for eight years during the 60s and 70s. I thought I knew the job duties of a subway conductor. Turns out in retrospect that I did not really understand them.
The motorman operates or drives the train. The Conductor is responsible for the passengers' boarding and unboarding, doors opening and closing on proper side per station and without stranding or clipping customers, passenger safety and comfort (i.e., lighting, temperature control, etc) and whatever else needs be taken care of other than the control lever and brake handle.
Sam1given the level of automation in most other activities, could the doors not be operated by the driver? Does the subway train really need a conductor?
Union says so.
And actually I quite agree with them. NYCT is not some little back woods town operation, you got over 2000 people on each train, if something goes wrong in a tunnel, it sure is nice to have another hand around.
Some lines do run OPTO (One Person Train Operation.) In such cases, trains can only be 300' long instead of 600 feet long. Many platforms are on curves. Some lines have TV monitors (and automatic operation), but you really do need that second person on the train.
ROAR
In addition to the points Lion mentioned, they are helpful to out-of-towners who need guidance. When I was there, there was considerable service disruptions from track work. A person saying "Yes, this train will make it to Times Square" is very helpful on a day of crazy operations (this was following Sandy). And they often know the fastest ways to get places.
My understanding is that the L, Canarsie - 14th St & 8th Avenue, is entirely automated and also entirely OPTO wiith full-length trains, but that might be 480 feet, eight cars instead of ten, 600-feet, for that line, unless the plaforms were all lengthened. By entirely automated, the operator, the one man in the motorman's full-width front cab, closes the doors by manual control, but after that everthing is automatic up through opening the doors at the next stop. I believe the announcements are also automated, from a digital recording. But operators are still trained to run in manual mode and this is possible in emergencies. Note that the L shares no tracks with other lines. I believe the next conversion is supposed to be the 7. There, using IRT equipment, the longest train is 550 feet assuming 11-car trains. The other regular line with OPT is G, without automation, but with only 300-foot trains, 4 75-foot cars or 5 60-foot cars. But I don't know if this is off-peak only with 2-men during the rush, or if short trains continue during the rush. Some other lines are OPT with short trains 1 - 5 AM only.
The day we rode (Oct. 9) the L from Myrtle to Canarsie and back to Broadway Jct. the trains all had motormen since there were all kinds of flags, slow orders, stops, and work being done on the tracks. Although the L doesn't share tracks, it does have a connecting track to the J line at Broadway Jct. and what looks like a shared track i into the yard.
Dave, you'd probably be confused and almost lost today. One guy with our Ridewithmehenry trip back at the end of May who grew up in Brooklyn was almost turned upside down because the F is where the D used to be and the B where the F used to be and...well, that is less than 10 years since he'd been there! I'm not even sure I understand all that was vs all that is. The Culver Viaduct from 9th Ave to Ditmas being gone and all....I remember the Myrtle Ave line with open cars in the summer going south from the Jamaica Avenue BMT line! Lots to see today...especially if you remember what used to be....
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Hey, I forgot to ask, who are those two good-lookin' young ladies? The one on the left has bewitching eyes!
Ah, if I was 30 years younger and 30 pounds lighter. No, wait a minute, when I was 30 years younger and 30 pounds lighter I was already married six years!
Oh well...
BroadwayLion Sam1given the level of automation in most other activities, could the doors not be operated by the driver? Does the subway train really need a conductor? Union says so. And actually I quite agree with them. NYCT is not some little back woods town operation, you got over 2000 people on each train, if something goes wrong in a tunnel, it sure is nice to have another hand around. Some lines do run OPTO (One Person Train Operation.) In such cases, trains can only be 300' long instead of 600 feet long. Many platforms are on curves. Some lines have TV monitors (and automatic operation), but you really do need that second person on the train. ROAR
The CTA L and subway lines seem to cope with only a driver.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
I am aware that the el structure from Ditmas to the grade level east of 9th Ave, is removed. But the lower level structure under the tracks still used by the Q between W8 and Ocean Parkway is still there evejn though the tracks used on occasion by the old 1 are removed --- unless they have been restored along with the switches for the Culver east of W8th. Could have been restored for more flexibility.
For a time the surfance tracks between Ditmas and 9th Avenue were still in place for South Brooklyn, but they got removed when t he MacDonald Avenue ex streetcar but then only South Brooklyn got removed. Now I believe the property has been sold and doesn't exist as a RofW anymore.
As I often say, Dave, there is so much to see that is there and more that isn't. There are still two levels south out of Stillwell Ave, one for the Q and the other for the present F trains. And wherever you go on the system there are remnants of this or that which only one who saw them back when could possibly explain. Broadway Jct. is a good example, and most of Coney Island, too! Did have an excellent "guide" last month to Metropolitan Ave,, Canarsie, and the Rockaways, John Garcia, of the Electric Railroaders, who was able to point out all of the missing parts and then some. His suggestion that we exit the M train at Fresh Pond Rd. to seek lunch even yielded a venue I always wondered where it was! I remember as a kid in the back seat of my parent's car driving along a street and a trolley car popped off a private right of way from under an elevated structure. And here at Fresh Pond Road, I found it although covered with weeds and brush under the structure and surrounded by businesses and eateries and banks...and the present bus garage, nee trolley car barn!
My understanding of the present situation is:
The lower level link between West 8th and the Brighton at Ocean Parkway has not been restored, just bare structure.
The N and D (Sea Beach and West End CAN use any of the eight tracks at Stillwell, in that there are switches and connections that permit this.
The Q can use any of the four easternmost tracks, all of which are connected to the upper level to W8th.
The F can use three of the westernmost tracks, all the the very westernmost, which last observed was stub ended at the south end. But perhaps it was reconnected. It was stub ended when the switch to the Nortons Point Trolley was removed (and the elevated trolley station and ramp to the PRW removed), which allowed movement from West 8th to the PRW and el structure of the trolley line. Has this curve been restored since, so the F can use any of the 4 westernmost tracks?
Corrections appreciated.
The D trains are directed to two stub end tracks but further west/north I believe the can be shunted elsewhere, N trains appear to have same choices but sent to the middle platforms. F trains and Q trains cannot change station locations with Q trains to stub tracks and F to run through tracks but don't. I am not adept at putting pics up here but do have some on disks....if ever I figure out how...
LION is pretty good with pics...
Now...
Wait, we are talking about Stillwell, and I believe there is only one stub track, the westernmost one. If it is indeed still a stub track, because for years I heard that it was going to be reconnected to the lower level to W8th, but I never saw it done. All other trracks have connections both at the south and at the north. The four easternmost tracks all connect to the upper level, the next three to the lower, and the furthest west may still be a stub at its south end. The D coming from West the West End can use the westernmost tracks, and that would be logical for minimum interference with the N on the four-track approach from the north. This means the Q in on the platform adjacent to the D platform, the Q is just east of the D.
However, I am going to contact friends a the TA and ask for a track diagram and will report back. That should answer the question. Possibly my memory and what sources of information i have had have been in error. Thanks
Western most track, D train, is stub..and so are several others in the terminal....
possible with the station rebuilding classic era had ALL tracks thru
From post on other thread: An error on my comment on the easternmost platform and track at Stillwell. My Transit Authority friend has told me that platform is now used by the N. The order, east to west is now upper level connection: N, Q, lower level connectdion, F, then D, and the farthest west track, used by the D, is still stub end on the south end. He is checking if any other tracks are stub ended, but I think not. Possibly one or more others were, temporarily, when Henry was there, because of trackwork.
Back to the "point". What is the history of this? The purpose? Who checks to see if its actually done? I've ridden many times and never noticed this. As Henry says, there is a lot we miss. Please explain, someone. Thanks.
Lots of railfans delight in trivia. No need for a point to be important or even useful. This type of argument is just as important to transit fans as specific consists of bygone limiteds are to fans of long distance passenger trains. Anyway, my transit authority friend has confirmed that both D-train tracks are stub ended at Stillewell and it may be diffficicult to reconnect them at the south end because of changes in the station remodeling.
Another point: Lion or other model railroaders may wish to scale-model Stillwell Avenue Station. Can anyone think of a transit station more worthy of having a scale model than Stillwell? It's present configuration is a beautiful evocation of the classic railroad train shed. Its original configuration permits gate elevated cars to share with articularted D-Types, the long "steels" or A and B types, and even deck roof semi-convertables and/or double-end Peter Witt streetcars at the Nortons Point portion of the original station.
Wells Street Terminal might come close. Although most people consider it to be the Chicago terminal of CA&E, it also served as a rush-hour terminal for Chicago Rapid Transit Garfield Park line and branches with the usual hodgepodge of equipment operated by CRT.
I agree. The CA&E operated a wide variety of interurban cars, a wide variety considering that they all mu'd with each other, and the same could be said for Chicago Rapid Tranist "L" cars. But the modern Stillwell is an unparalleled architectural jem, rivalled only by the original underground IRT City Hall (loop) station.
matthewsaggie Back to the "point". What is the history of this? The purpose? Who checks to see if its actually done? I've ridden many times and never noticed this. As Henry says, there is a lot we miss. Please explain, someone. Thanks.
I don't know, and I was wondering, too. I would guess that it is part of the routine to insure that all duties at the stop have been performed or something like that. I remember reading a while back that in Japan an engineer alone in the cab can be seen constantly talking and pointing to gauges and controls. It's to insure that he is alert and aware of what's happening. Anyway, that's my guess.
Henry6 or some of our other subway experts should be able to enlighten us on this.
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"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Pointing at the zebra is REQUIRED. Yes, they always point before they open the doors. If they actually see the board that they are pointing at is conjecture, but they always point.
If an error happens because of the doors, they will be charged with not doing their job correctly because they did not point to the zebra. No excuses, that is a violation.
Sometimes inspectors remove the zebra and then watch what the conductor does. If they open the doors, their goose is cooked. Could be taken out of service on the spot. What he needs to do is to get on the horn to the motorman telling that he has no zebra and ask if train is platformed properly. If motorman confirms proper location of train, he can then open the doors, but he must also report to control the missing zebra.
Usually before he gets on the horn to control the inspectors will come out of the woodwork and give him a lollypop before he calls command, thus they can try to catch the next conductor as well.
A new procedure instituted after I moved from NY. Does the OPT man have to point also? At the front of the train?
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