an interesting point of view....
"Instead, the idea seems to be that since private automobiles are a highly space-inefficient way of transporting people through an urban area, they therefore deserve massive subsidy in the form of additional space-allocation. After all, if private automobiles were made to get by with the same amount of space dedicated to pedestrians, they'd be impractical for many uses. But would that be a bad outcome? Why? And bad for whom?"
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/06/04/overallocation_of_urban_space_to_cars.html
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
LION has long proposed to keep Manhattan (south of 60th Street) Automobile Free (or as close to it as possible.) Yes, there *are* people who actually live in lower Manhattan (my nice niece among them--but she does not own a car and only rents one when she needs one) but they should PROVE that they have rented an off-street parking place before they can get plates for their car.
To make this work, the LION proposes a system of LRVs in the CBD to circulate people once in Manhattan. Him would put no fare collection on board them at all: we want people to come to Manhattan and not to chaste them away. And we assume that to get in or out of the CBD they would have to transfer to a bus or subway and we will milk them for a fare there.
Worst Cities: Fargo and Grand Forks! If you want to cross the street, you have to drive. Nobody uses the sidewalks, you cannot walk from shop to shop like you do in NYC, each place is an island in a vast parking lot. Very BAD cities. NYC, Chicago, much better.
Much better still, get the cars out!
LION would simply close the free bridges to all but trucks and buses. Make LINCOLN TUNNEL buses only between 5AM and 11AM and between 3PM and 7PM. Charge $100.00 minimum toll for trucks in the daytime, but make the tunnels free for trucks at night.
But then, I do not think that anybody is planning on voting for the LION as mayor or even as TRANSIT ZHARR.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
BroadwayLion LION has long proposed to keep Manhattan (south of 60th Street) Automobile Free (or as close to it as possible.) Yes, there *are* people who actually live in lower Manhattan (my nice niece among them--but she does not own a car and only rents one when she needs one) but they should PROVE that they have rented an off-street parking place before they can get plates for their car. To make this work, the LION proposes a system of LRVs in the CBD to circulate people once in Manhattan. Him would put no fare collection on board them at all: we want people to come to Manhattan and not to chaste them away. And we assume that to get in or out of the CBD they would have to transfer to a bus or subway and we will milk them for a fare there. Worst Cities: Fargo and Grand Forks! If you want to cross the street, you have to drive. Nobody uses the sidewalks, you cannot walk from shop to shop like you do in NYC, each place is an island in a vast parking lot. Very BAD cities. NYC, Chicago, much better. Much better still, get the cars out! LION would simply close the free bridges to all but trucks and buses. Make LINCOLN TUNNEL buses only between 5AM and 11AM and between 3PM and 7PM. Charge $100.00 minimum toll for trucks in the daytime, but make the tunnels free for trucks at night. But then, I do not think that anybody is planning on voting for the LION as mayor or even as TRANSIT ZHARR. ROAR
All those Manhattan Cabbies would need to become as adept at navigating around streetcars as their forefathers were!
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
carnej1 All those Manhattan Cabbies would need to become as adept at navigating around streetcars as their forefathers were!
Nah. The street cars will operate where the parking lane used to be, it will be "grade separated" by about 10 inches just to keep cars out of the trackway, and of course to make for easier passenger loading. Traffic Lights will be timed to the operation of the trains. Stops are just short of the intersection, cross traffic is moving. Trains close doors, lights change and clear the LRV for the next 4-6 blocks.
Trucks only on the streets, cars only on the avenues, no turns permitted.
In fact relatively little space is allocated to on street parking in urban areas, especially large urban areas. Most parking is in parking garages and is paid for. It is in the suburbs where we find a lot of space allocated to parking, especially in shopping centers.
New York City is a special case. But if we look at typical smaller cities it is clear that one reason retail stores have abandoned them is because of lack of parking. People who drive prefer suburban shopping centers with their acres of free parking. There in no pedestrian vs automobile there because there are so few pedestrians who come. The few who come by bus are generally let of right next to the shopping center.
This article is a response to a Wall Street Journal article opposing bicycle lanes in Manhattan. As far as I can see it does not apply to other places.
In midtown Manhattan you can not park on the street anywhere unless you have a commercial vehicle and NYC rules mean that it must have commercial plates and a sign advertising the business, either magnetic or painted on the doors so a private car must go to a parking garage. I've always heard that a certain Mr. William Fugazy owns the garages as well as the taxi and limo companies. I imagine if such a person exists or existed, he donated large sums of money to whatever politicians make such decisions. The last time I drove to Manhattan in 1993, I tried to park on a street, maybe 33rd. The many confusing signs on the parking meter seemed to contradict the many confusing signs on the pole nearby. A kindly cop came out of a coffee shop and explained that the signs on the parking meter took priority and it was best to go to a parking garage as he really couldn't make sense of it either but he was "pretty sure he would have to give me a ticket." Nice guy.
A wealthy man I know who has homes in both NYC and London said that businesses that existed for "hundreds of years" were going out of business due to the congestion charge in central London. I asked him, "How did those business do before they invented cars since cars have only been around for 110 years. He had no reply. Rich people don't like being contradicted.
A car-free New York? It would be nice, but it ain't gonna happen. I'll be there this Friday and Saturday, seeing the best sights of New York, namely the White Horse Tavern, McSorley's Old Ale House, Fraunces Taven and you get the idea.
I have been pointing out the basic concept for a long time. Freight RRs pay real-estate taxes. Interstate Highways don't and the taxes they indirectly collect (fuel taxes, etc.) go to support highways. Amtrak does make contributions to the cities and towns it passes through where it owns the RofW.
54light15 In midtown Manhattan you can not park on the street anywhere unless you have a commercial vehicle and NYC rules mean that it must have commercial plates and a sign advertising the business, either magnetic or painted on the doors so a private car must go to a parking garage. I've always heard that a certain Mr. William Fugazy owns the garages as well as the taxi and limo companies. I imagine if such a person exists or existed, he donated large sums of money to whatever politicians make such decisions. The last time I drove to Manhattan in 1993, I tried to park on a street, maybe 33rd. The many confusing signs on the parking meter seemed to contradict the many confusing signs on the pole nearby. A kindly cop came out of a coffee shop and explained that the signs on the parking meter took priority and it was best to go to a parking garage as he really couldn't make sense of it either but he was "pretty sure he would have to give me a ticket." Nice guy. A wealthy man I know who has homes in both NYC and London said that businesses that existed for "hundreds of years" were going out of business due to the congestion charge in central London. I asked him, "How did those business do before they invented cars since cars have only been around for 110 years. He had no reply. Rich people don't like being contradicted. A car-free New York? It would be nice, but it ain't gonna happen. I'll be there this Friday and Saturday, seeing the best sights of New York, namely the White Horse Tavern, McSorley's Old Ale House, Fraunces Taven and you get the idea.
William Fugazy?
Good one, change the Y to an I and the Gentlemen's last name becomes a word that was Vietnam era military slang with the same meaning as S.N.A.F.U...
carnej1 54light15 In midtown Manhattan you can not park on the street anywhere unless you have a commercial vehicle and NYC rules mean that it must have commercial plates and a sign advertising the business, either magnetic or painted on the doors so a private car must go to a parking garage. I've always heard that a certain Mr. William Fugazy owns the garages as well as the taxi and limo companies. I imagine if such a person exists or existed, he donated large sums of money to whatever politicians make such decisions. The last time I drove to Manhattan in 1993, I tried to park on a street, maybe 33rd. The many confusing signs on the parking meter seemed to contradict the many confusing signs on the pole nearby. A kindly cop came out of a coffee shop and explained that the signs on the parking meter took priority and it was best to go to a parking garage as he really couldn't make sense of it either but he was "pretty sure he would have to give me a ticket." Nice guy. A wealthy man I know who has homes in both NYC and London said that businesses that existed for "hundreds of years" were going out of business due to the congestion charge in central London. I asked him, "How did those business do before they invented cars since cars have only been around for 110 years. He had no reply. Rich people don't like being contradicted. A car-free New York? It would be nice, but it ain't gonna happen. I'll be there this Friday and Saturday, seeing the best sights of New York, namely the White Horse Tavern, McSorley's Old Ale House, Fraunces Taven and you get the idea. William Fugazy? Good one, change the Y to an I and the Gentlemen's last name becomes a word that was Vietnam era military slang with the same meaning as S.N.A.F.U...
And as it turns out, he is a real person:
http://www.irishconnectionsmagazine.com/archives/v1i1/20.htm
carnej1 carnej1 54light15 In midtown Manhattan you can not park on the street anywhere unless you have a commercial vehicle and NYC rules mean that it must have commercial plates and a sign advertising the business, either magnetic or painted on the doors so a private car must go to a parking garage. I've always heard that a certain Mr. William Fugazy owns the garages as well as the taxi and limo companies. I imagine if such a person exists or existed, he donated large sums of money to whatever politicians make such decisions. The last time I drove to Manhattan in 1993, I tried to park on a street, maybe 33rd. The many confusing signs on the parking meter seemed to contradict the many confusing signs on the pole nearby. A kindly cop came out of a coffee shop and explained that the signs on the parking meter took priority and it was best to go to a parking garage as he really couldn't make sense of it either but he was "pretty sure he would have to give me a ticket." Nice guy. A wealthy man I know who has homes in both NYC and London said that businesses that existed for "hundreds of years" were going out of business due to the congestion charge in central London. I asked him, "How did those business do before they invented cars since cars have only been around for 110 years. He had no reply. Rich people don't like being contradicted. A car-free New York? It would be nice, but it ain't gonna happen. I'll be there this Friday and Saturday, seeing the best sights of New York, namely the White Horse Tavern, McSorley's Old Ale House, Fraunces Taven and you get the idea. William Fugazy? Good one, change the Y to an I and the Gentlemen's last name becomes a word that was Vietnam era military slang with the same meaning as S.N.A.F.U... And as it turns out, he is a real person: http://www.irishconnectionsmagazine.com/archives/v1i1/20.htm
"***ked Up, Got Ambushed, Zipped In" a variant on FUBAR.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
oltmanndan interesting point of view....
Another interesting point of view I came across is that people who park free on the street are being subsidized by the government with their free space. I live in a neighborhood where it is legal to park overnight on the street and many of my neighbors do. They do have driveways and garages just as I do but most have more than one car and inadequate space to park so they park on the street.
I understand the logic of the argument. But at the same time my own taxes are not increased by their free parking and historically they have been doing it for many years. I am not inclined to complain about the practice.
Town streets, roads and highways (not all, but most) have been a public thoroughfare and government function since at least the Roman empire.
Don't forget J.A.N.F.U- "joint Army-Navy F*** Up. As an aside, when I was in NYC this past weekend, I visited the High Line park - that place is awesome! Lots of the original tracks are still in place and used as tracks for wooden chaise lounges so they can be moved closer together. Well worth visiting!
schlimm Town streets, roads and highways (not all, but most) have been a public thoroughfare and government function since at least the Roman empire.
This is true, but did they allow automobiles on them?
Taxi Cabs are the problem in NYC. Stopping for no reason and letting people out in the middle of the street and overpriced fares. Theres too many of them. No reason to have cabs when you have a subway on every block.
John WR oltmanndan interesting point of view.... Another interesting point of view I came across is that people who park free on the street are being subsidized by the government with their free space.
Another interesting point of view I came across is that people who park free on the street are being subsidized by the government with their free space.
That IS the interesting point of view in the article.
oltmanndThat IS the interesting point of view in the article.
Actually, Don, Matthew Yglesias questions both allocating space for parked cars and allocating space for operating cars.
It does occur to me that downtown DC and downtown New York are not typical of the US or even US cities so the argument at best is limited.
John
Two futures for North America, which do you think is preferable, which ends up costing less and by how much:
1. Suburban malls, stores, and offices located in the midst of a vast parking lots, wiith the surround suburban and rual communities all driving to the parking lots for shopping and entertainment.
2. Centralized downtown stores and entertainment, under multi-story offices providing employment, with a subsidized local streetcar system providing free service to four, five, six, eight, ten parking lots located peripherally around the core.
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