New EMD passenger locos ordered ( for commuter )

[aegrotatio]

Interesting. It seemed counter-intuitive that the two-stroke could be compliant until I read that the AGR and the really high temperature of the two-stroke engines made it very viable. Perhaps the high temperatures cause a durability problem?

By the way, MARC has those 125 MPH locomotives, the unreliable HHP-8 for example, for that very reason and they routinely run at 115-120 MPH every day.

[blue streak 1]

oltmannd

I'd guess it's because they are going to co-mingle with CAHSR in LA approach and that'll probably be 125 mph territory.   Still seems stupid high for a commuter locomotive.  

Don:   Probably the same reason MARC needs 125 commuter trains on their non stop / multi stop Perryville -- BAL  --  WASH  commuter trains

[oltmannd]

creepycrank

It seems more like Progress Rail is buying a Vossoh kit and having EMD assemble it then slap "EMD" on the side.

With $3M "dealer sticker"  add on for pinstripes, fabric protectant and paint sealer. 

[oltmannd]

CSSHEGEWISCH

It can be safely assumed that Metrolink is going to have little to no need for the 125 MPH capabilities of this locomotive.  So why did they go to EMD instead of re-ordering with MPI, which has a proven suburban design?

I'd guess it's because they are going to co-mingle with CAHSR in LA approach and that'll probably be 125 mph territory.

Still seems stupid high for a commuter locomotive.  

[Mario_v]

Horsepower is about 3000, and train lenght some 100 meters

[Mario_v]

daveklepper

A little slow accelerating out of speed restrictions?  What length trains and what horsepower?

Normally Talgos, wich tend to have something between 8 and 12 cars, wich is something in the vicinity of 200 metric tons. But it's only noticeable when coming out of speed restrictions. Acceleranting from a standstill they're fast enough

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

It can be safely assumed that Metrolink is going to have little to no need for the 125 MPH capabilities of this locomotive.  So why did they go to EMD instead of re-ordering with MPI, which has a proven suburban design?

[daveklepper]

A little slow accelerating out of speed restrictions?  What length trains and what horsepower?

[Mario_v]

Some more info about EMDs newest passenger locomotive. Let us start with the heritage, i.e; the Euro 3000 and 4000. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vossloh_Euro

There's even a 'dualie' prototype :

http://www.vossloh-innotrans.com/en/product_highlights_2/dual_mode_2/dual_mode_1.html

Don't know about anyone else, but I think that this new F125 is not so 'new' since it's the result of developments abroad, especially in spain, wher the Series 334 has been in use for several years now. Yet, over there, the lines in wich such units work have only short sections of 125 Mph capable sections, with the notable exception being a small period in wich these locos were allowed to 'stretch their legs' in the Galicia HSL, during a short period just after the opening of that line, when the electrification was still being completed. Anyway, I've rode train behind such units and they're a little slow accelerating out of speed restrictions.

And here's the 'official literature' from EMD : http://www.emdiesels.com/emdweb/products/pdf/2-sidersENG_LTR_proof_rev5RevE.pdf

[creepycrank]

It seems more like Progress Rail is buying a Vossoh kit and having EMD assemble it then slap "EMD" on the side.

[Mario_v]

Corrected link : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9sO7lgTO9w

[Mario_v]

daveklepper

The Vosslov loco sold to Israel Ry has an EMD prime mover

Indeed. Israeli units are Euro 4000s, the only ones built for passenger services, having a top speed of 160 Kmhr, or 99,5 Mph. Here's a video 

[daveklepper]

The Vosslov loco sold to Israel Ry has an EMD prime mover

[Mario_v]

owlsroost

From http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/mechanical/locomotives/emd-reenters-passenger-rail-market-with-spirit.html - "The F125 Spirit consists of a streamlined Vossloh Rail Vehicles (VRV)-designed monocoque carbody with one control cab equipped with CEM (Crash Energy Management); a turbocharged, 20-cyclinder; four-stroke Cat® C-175 20 diesel engine; an AC traction propulsion system; VRV high-speed trucks; inverter-controlled HEP (head end power), “and all the accessories necessary for single- and multiple-unit operation suitable for commuter and intercity service."

So it's basically an uprated, Americanised version of this - http://www.vossloh-espana.com/en/products/diesel-electric_locomotives/eurolight/eurolight.html ?

(the datasheet for the 'slimline' UK version is here - http://www.vossloh-innotrans.com/media/downloads/pdfs/vrv/Vossloh_UKLIGHT_us.pdf  - 15 of these are on order for one of the UK operators)

From the beginning of the tread, all this Metrolink 'new' EMD looked like a 'conversion' of Vossloh's design. It's now been some time since EMD and Vossloh have been cooperating in terms of locomotive business. However, most engines sold (I'm talking about the previous model, the Euro 4000) have been for freight use, although the Euro 4000 also has a passenger version in catalouge, that has only been sold to Israeli railways. The Eurolight is just an euro 4000, V2.0. So all the process of creating a 'new' pasenger locomotive design by EMD is not so new, wich means the F125 is a conversion from an european 'base'. About the trucks: I bet these will be the same type used by Vossloh(EMD) designs here in Europe. After all, these two companies have already produced a 125 Mph capable diesel, REnfe's (spanish railways) series 334 or Euro 3000, wich means having some background knowledge in terms of high speed diesels. Here's a video :

watch?v=fkSrkIWNvec

By the way : the site in wich the Eurolight is presented, talks about 2800 Kw of total power, wich in horspower 'translates' into 3808. Maybe the F125 will get more powerfull engines

[narig01]

One thing I find interesting is the use of SCR(catalytic converter) engine. I can not say about that large of an engine. However in trucks most companies are going with DEF. SCR engines tend to be real fuel hogs. 15-20 percent loss in fuel economy.
Rgds IGN

[owlsroost]

From http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/mechanical/locomotives/emd-reenters-passenger-rail-market-with-spirit.html - "The F125 Spirit consists of a streamlined Vossloh Rail Vehicles (VRV)-designed monocoque carbody with one control cab equipped with CEM (Crash Energy Management); a turbocharged, 20-cyclinder; four-stroke Cat® C-175 20 diesel engine; an AC traction propulsion system; VRV high-speed trucks; inverter-controlled HEP (head end power), “and all the accessories necessary for single- and multiple-unit operation suitable for commuter and intercity service."

So it's basically an uprated, Americanised version of this - http://www.vossloh-espana.com/en/products/diesel-electric_locomotives/eurolight/eurolight.html ?

(the datasheet for the 'slimline' UK version is here - http://www.vossloh-innotrans.com/media/downloads/pdfs/vrv/Vossloh_UKLIGHT_us.pdf  - 15 of these are on order for one of the UK operators)

[Firelock76]

Yikes, that thing is weird-lookin'!   Would it be so hard for EMD to give it a "Bulldog"  nose?

[blue streak 1]

daveklepper

So, Blue,  are you saying GE was the only competition?

Unknown if even GE has a 125 MPH AC traction, non nose hung traction motor loco even in development.  Now European builders ?  They may have the technology but crash worthiness ?  The 4700 HP is puzzling as that may be a phantom number. 

Is that prime mover HP,  Max traction HP,  Max traction HP with full HEP in useage,  low  minimum speed for full HP, & other performance  figures?.  Anyone know brake HP of this prime mover ?

[daveklepper]

So, Blue,  are you saying GE was the only competition?

[blue streak 1]

CSSHEGEWISCH

I would like to see how EMD's bid stacked up against those from MPI and Brookville, assuming they decided to go after the Metrolink order.  It will also be interesting to see if EMD will go after any other suburban locomotive business in the future.

-

It may be because Metro link specified 125 MPH capable and that almost requires AC traction motors.  I do not believe MPI & Brookville has any 4700 HP AC loco  ? In fact do they catalogue any AC traction ? ?  That speed also requires not having nose hung traction motors.  Do these other manufacturers have that ? ?

[carnej1]

daveklepper

Intersting that it is 4-stroke cycle and not 2-stroke.   EMD under Hamilton, as an  independent, was planning 2-stroke compatibility with Tier-4 without much after-treatment of exhaust.   Aparently, that effort has been abandoned in favor of using Cat's technology.

I've read some speculation that the Cat high speed 4 cycle engine is lighter than an equivalent 710 and that may be the major reason for it's application.

 Cat/Progress/EMD is still planning to offer a Tier IV SD70ACe with the 16-710 so that engine line stays in the catalog, at least for the near future..

[oltmannd]

Not cheap! 

http://www.metrolinktrains.com/news/news_item/news_id/836.html

At least $6M a pop!  

More than double what a six axle freight locomotive costs.  Ouch!

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

I would like to see how EMD's bid stacked up against those from MPI and Brookville, assuming they decided to go after the Metrolink order.  It will also be interesting to see if EMD will go after any other suburban locomotive business in the future.

[daveklepper]

Intersting that it is 4-stroke cycle and not 2-stroke.   EMD under Hamilton, as an  independent, was planning 2-stroke compatibility with Tier-4 without much after-treatment of exhaust.   Aparently, that effort has been abandoned in favor of using Cat's technology.

[blue streak 1]

SCRRD anounced order for 20 new F-125 EMD 4700 HP for MetroLink.  AC traction with HEP.  Other details lacking.  Here is Railway age link.Max speed 125 MPH.

http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/mechanical/locomotives/emd-reenters-passenger-rail-market-with-spirit.html

 every one is going for the 125 MPH loco speeds