Watching the capture of the marathon bombing suspect I noticed a trolley bus leaving Watertown. How many routes and route numbers there ? does anyone know ? I assume run by MBTA ?
I caught that too...actually saw the wires earlier. I call them trackless trolleys...my wife said "no, trolley bus". Hell, I'm from NYC and I'm old, so they are trackless trolleys!
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston-area_trackless_trolleys
Henry, you are incredible. Once again you've hit the ball out of the park.
The American Public Transit Association considers "trackless trolley" and "trolley bus" equally correct and even lists "trackless trolley" as the first term. I've always called them "trackless trolleys" since my Mom used the same term in Providence so I write this hoping some some of your brilliance will reflect on me.
John
I'm not sure about this, but didn't they have trackless trolleys in Philadelphia at one time?
...and Brooklyn and .......
...and I suppose the All Service Vehicles (ASVs) Public Service Co-ordinated Transport operated in New Jersey back in the '40s. These were hybrid buses that ran off trolley wires and gasolene powered on-board generators where trolley wires weren't available.
Public Service had at least one pure TT route as well as all-service vehicles on a number of routes. Most Swis TT's can also operate on diesel-electric witih reduced performance.
Cambrdige (Boston area) as three routes: Watertown - Harvard Sq, extended to North Cambridge on occasion; Waverly - Harvard Sq., extended to North Cambridge on occasion, and Huron Avenue - Harvard Sq., off-peak and weekends combined with the second route "Waverly via Huron Avenue." The Watertown and Waverly lines were PCC at one time, even having a loop at Wavelry constructed where there was formerly a stub-end terminal. But the PCC's were replaced by buses (on Arlington Heights) and TT's to permit the PCC's to be used on the Green Line D route, Riverside, the old B&A Highland Branch, to remove the expensse of buying new light rail cars. The TT's in turn migrated from routes with reduced ridership and one or two converted to diesel bus. The Huron Avenue route was one of Boston Elevated's first TT routes, around 1936. All TT's have an underground station at Harvard Sq.
In addition to the three Cambridge routes, there is the Silver Line South Station - Logan Airport, using overhead wire for part the route and diesel power in the Calahan Tunnel, in East Boston, and at he Airport.
Firelock76 I'm not sure about this, but didn't they have trackless trolleys in Philadelphia at one time?
if you consider today to be at one time, then yes, they did have trackless trolleys in Philadelphia at one time. Actually all 5 of the Philly lines that were trackless trolleys when I could remember had been converted to diesel bus for a bunch of years, but 3 of them have been restored to electric operation relatively recently. I'm unclear on my dates, because even when they were still supposed to have been electric in the past, and even now when they're supposed to have the electrics restored, they often used diesels. I think the official long term dieselization was somewhere around 10 years, 1995-2005 or therabouts.
Patrick Boylan
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henry6 I caught that too...actually saw the wires earlier. I call them trackless trolleys...my wife said "no, trolley bus". Hell, I'm from NYC and I'm old, so they are trackless trolleys!
When they operated in Baltimore the were also called 'trackless trolleys'.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
The CTA ran them until about 1973, and we called them trolley buses.
Trolley Busses are Clean and and last a long time. Its a wonder why dont they build more of them. Dayton OH has Trolley busses that are 45 years old
BonasTrolley Busses are Clean and and last a long time. Its a wonder why dont they build more of them. Dayton OH has Trolley busses that are 45 years old
Bonas,
I wonder why we don't replace more diesel bus routes with trolley cars on tracks. New Jersey Transit has certain bus routes that carry hugh numbers of people and have been unchanged for decades. For example, the route between Newark and Jersey City. Trolleys are clean and cost effective.
While the operator doesn't have to lay down track, an overhead power system still has to be put in place, and this is still a sizable outlay of capital. Flexibility is still inhibited since the route is tied to the overhead.
CSSHEGEWISCHWhile the operator doesn't have to lay down track, an overhead power system still has to be put in place, and this is still a sizable outlay of capital. Flexibility is still inhibited since the route is tied to the overhead.
You are absolutely right on both counts. However, once the overhead power system is in place electricity to run the buses costs less than diesel fuel. Actually a lot less. And, while New Jersey Transit can and does abandon sections of bus routes, some of their routes have been in place since the days of trolley cars. Some routes are quite robust.
Certainly diesel buses have their place. They are not going to go away. But it does seem to me that there also routes where electric operation makes sense. Most of all, the current one size fits all philosophy is a mistake.
On reconsideration, clearly the easiest thing for a transit agency to do is to get some diesel buses. They the the cheapest of all transit vehicles. All you have to do is to get some Federal money, buy a bunch of buses and put them on the streets. No planning or management is required. But I do not see that the cheapest and easiest way is necessarily the best way to serve the public.
There is a rail line between Newark and Jersey City, PATH. NJT has extensive experience with modern light rail, with three separate systems under its management. When and if it decides the Newark - JC line should be TT or LRT, it will do a good job. There is also the question of finding the money for the capital investmenrt, and possibly what capital funds it can obtain are better used elsewhere.
In the fifties and early sixties, Atlanta and Birmingham had trackless trolleys. I don't remember when the systems changed to diesel-powered buses; I know it was after 1962 when the change was made in Atlanta.
Johnny
daveklepperThere is a rail line between Newark and Jersey City, PATH.
Yes Dave, you are right. There are PATH trains that run between Newark Penn Station and Journal Square. NJT also runs bus route no. 361 from Ivy HIll in Western Newark to Newark Penn Station and then some continue on to Exchange Place and some run to Journal Square. From Newark Penn Station the buses run along Ferry Street, Lincoln Highway and Communipaw Avenue. It is a heavily used bus line. I have never heard of NJT considering changing this to a trolley line.
Whether or not a right of way would exist for a light rail line between Jersey City and Newark along the current 361 bus route I do not know. My own experience is that NJT treats bus riders like second class citizens. Or worse.
They still do. SEPTA has everything: streetcars, trolley buses, motor buses, subways ... everything.
The PATH can not be remotely considered 'light' rail, it is a commuter rail line. I believe the system has a Class A designation due to it's original PRR shared right-of-way and freight connections.
"New Jersey" as a "nom de plume." Why didn't I think of that?
PS: I'm from Paramus originally. Where're you from? I will NOT ask "what exit?"!!!
Firelock76"New Jersey" as a "nom de plume." Why didn't I think of that?
You can't fool me, Wayne. It is really a pen name.
New Jersey The PATH can not be remotely considered 'light' rail, it is a commuter rail line. I believe the system has a Class A designation due to it's original PRR shared right-of-way and freight connections.
PATH is a rapid transit operation not that different from the NYCTA and CTA rapid tranist operations. I remember riding PATH between Hoboken and 33rd Street while on vacation and I felt quite at home. PATH equipment at the time (1982) was quite similar in size and layout to CTA equipment except that the conductor wore a railroad pillbox cap instead of a peaked cap.
John WR Henry, you are incredible. Once again you've hit the ball out of the park. The American Public Transit Association considers "trackless trolley" and "trolley bus" equally correct and even lists "trackless trolley" as the first term. I've always called them "trackless trolleys" since my Mom used the same term in Providence so I write this hoping some some of your brilliance will reflect on me. John
Nowadays if you use the word "Trolley" in most of Rhode Island most people will assume you are referring to the Rhode Island Public Transit Authorities small fleet of diesel powered buses with cosmetic modifications that make them look cosmetically like "old timey" Trolley cars. These operate in both Providence and Newport.
A few years ago was a proposal for building a short tram(to use yet another term for an electricly powered rail vehicle running on rails embedded in the street) line in Downtown Providence. I noticed that the project's backers were careful to refer to the vehicles as "streetcars"(prob. the preferred correct term in modern transit jargon?) so as not to confuse the public..
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
carnej1Nowadays if you use the word "Trolley" in most of Rhode Island most people will assume you are referring to the Rhode Island Public Transit Authorities small fleet of diesel powered buses with cosmetic modifications that make them look cosmetically like "old timey" Trolley cars.
I have ridden in these in both Providence and other places. They do sort of look like street cars. At least they have a bump in the roof for pretend clearstory windows. In Providence they are used on certain circulator routes.
But true street cars, while costing more to install, would cost less to operate and on the circulator routes ultimately more than pay for themselves. But managing such a project is more work than just plopping down some diesel buses and why should the transit managers make more work for themselves just because it would benefit the State of Rhode Island?
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