There has been a lot of posts on differnet threads about how many NJT bus lines do not connect with NJT trains. After reviewing these posts it apppears that NJT busses carry about 2 - 2/12 passengers more into the PA bus terminal than NJT does into NYP & Hoboken..
Could it be that the bus lines are avoiding connecting to trains so the trains will not be overwhelmed ? We have been told many times that trains especially those into NYP are at overload capacity now.
Once the Gateway project is complete will NJT mostly use those tunnels to bring in bi level cars ? As well -- the length of the NYP new platforms may allow longer trains than the present NJT limits of 12 cars ?
All this would IMHO indicate that there will be no wholesale change of bus routes in NJ for the foreseeable future.? This cappacity problem into Hoboken and NYP may be one reason NJT is so reluctant to either lenghten some train routes and maybe bus routes or add capacity to any routes ?
Streak,
I'm not familiar with the other threads you refer to. However, I am familiar with a lot of NJT bus lines and the fact that they go close to rail stations but do not actually connect with them. These are local buses and would never reach the Port Authority.
Many people ride NJT interstate buses to the PA because they can walk to the bus stop from their homes. Frequently NJT will just run a few rush hour PA buses in a location but if you work in Manhattan all you need is one of them. And in many areas parking lots are so full driving to the local railroad station is not an option because there is no place to park when you get there.
So if more local buses connected to railroad stations would that divert some riders from buses to trains? Probably it would. Is that why NJT ignores so many bus -- rail connections? I really don't know the answer to that question. but I wish they would reform local bus routes to connect with rail stations when possible.
John
blue streak 1Once the Gateway project is complete will NJT mostly use those tunnels to bring in bi level cars ? As well -- the length of the NYP new platforms may allow longer trains than the present NJT limits of 12 cars ?
Can it be true that NJT will be using the Gateway tunnels at all?
I thought one of the points of the project was to separate NJT traffic from Amtrak before the Portal Bridge, and then give Amtrak a high-speed ROW all the way up to the (uphill) zone in the tunnel they have to brake for NYP. NJT would take over the old tunnels which they can run happily to CBTC capacity or whatever.
Having said that: I would think that yes, you'd see NJT trainsets, particularly bilevels, either running as 'Amtrak substitutes' or some regional service that wouldn't stop between Newark and NYP, going via Gateway. But not anything that would stop at Allied/Secaucus/Lautenmund or whatever that stuff is supposed to be called, or anything coming off M&E or ex-EL main that is going through to Penn.
... At least that's what I'm hoping, for the amount of money and blood involved in building separate high-speed tunnels...
RME
blue streak 1 There has been a lot of posts on differnet threads about how many NJT bus lines do not connect with NJT trains. After reviewing these posts it apppears that NJT busses carry about 2 - 2/12 passengers more into the PA bus terminal than NJT does into NYP & Hoboken.. Could it be that the bus lines are avoiding connecting to trains so the trains will not be overwhelmed ?
Could it be that the bus lines are avoiding connecting to trains so the trains will not be overwhelmed ?
If I remember correctly, most of the NJT bus runs that go into PA terminal -- either of them -- go nowhere near a rail service, and many of the routes that do serve very different routes than the trains follow. I could ride what used to be a 78, then 178, from Englewood to River Edge and get on the Pascack Valley line there. Or for far less money, I could take a bus over the GWB far faster, or a Red & Tan or NJT bus cheaply down through Fairview and through the tunnel, again directly to NYC on a one-seat ride if a little lengthy non-express (I never successfully traveled on an express except once when I took the wrong bus one day and had to WALK HOME from River Edge...)
There were some bus routes that had stops at or near train stations, but I doubt there was any practical way to time them to 'make' specific schedules on most of the NJT rail routes, even if bus riders wanted to pay twice and stand out in the wind and rain for the train, and then pay again to ride the Tubes.
It doesn't surprise me in the least that 'all' the bus routes, and there are lots of them each with perhaps many buses out at one time, taken together are moving twice the number of pax or more. What this dramatically shows ME is that the ridership on the trains is strong. My experience is that most of the rail passengers do exactly what the time-honored counterparts in NY and CT do: they drive to the station, or have someone drop them off there, and then drive home in comfort upon their return.
I was of two minds regarding the service in Englewood. Of course I loved the RS3s and Stilwells when they ran. But there was an incredibly good reason, even with five trains a day each way, that they were taken off. Hard to beat two bus lines each running most hours of the day on 20-minute headway to PA, and another 35 minutes from GWB, even if the trip takes longer!
OvermodMy experience is that most of the rail passengers do exactly what the time-honored counterparts in NY and CT do: they drive to the station, or have someone drop them off there, and then drive home in comfort upon their return.
Bob,
My own experience in commuting by train for over 20 years is that you are absolutely right. And for many the drive home is in comfort. Take for example, my friend Linda who lived in Ridgewood, NJ. Her husband would meet her at the station every evening with a spritzer and they had a pleasant drive home. But all stations are not like that.
When I commuted from Princeton Junction people would line up at the doors 10 minutes before reaching the station. As soon as the doors opened they sprinted to their cars in the enormous parking lot so they could get away before being ensnarled in traffic. Then for people who couldn't get parking spaces cars were backed up down the street 3 abreast. Even the fire lane was jamed up with cars coming to pick up commuters.
I was one of relatively few who rode a bus to the station so I was one of the last to leave.
John WR When I commuted from Princeton Junction people would line up at the doors 10 minutes before reaching the station. As soon as the doors opened they sprinted to their cars in the enormous parking lot so they could get away before being ensnarled in traffic. Then for people who couldn't get parking spaces cars were backed up down the street 3 abreast. Even the fire lane was jamed up with cars coming to pick up commuters. I was one of relatively few who rode a bus to the station so I was one of the last to leave.
And I rode the Dinky to the station, and left my car in Lot #21 or parked in Irish's lot. Far better than any stinking bus to that pathetic lot off Alexander Road could be -- let alone driving in there even if I could find a place easily on either side, which I usually couldn't, when I was at the station for some non-college reason like a little action after going to Burger King in Hamilton Twp (which, believe it or not, kids, used to be the closest one -- and it superseded the drive up across the Reading (!) which was previously necessary if you wanted to dine with the King instead of going to the infamous Diner.
Oh, the humanity!
I feel sorry for all the poor West Windsor rodents who had to run around when their train came in. But it was better than most of their ;mass transit alternatives', wouldn't you agree? ;-}
One of the rush hour only bus routes to NYC runs a few houses away from me, and several of my neighbors are daily commuters on it. The one constant problem that they continually complain about is the time it takes to actually arrive in the Port Authority Bus Terminal. The arrival times on the schedules are politely described as "ficticious".
The problem is the access to the express bus lanes going to the Lincoln Tunnel. On weekday mornings, the left lane on the outbound roadway is converted to an inbound bus only lane. Busses converge on this lane from three directions: Turnpike southbound, Turnpike northbound, and Route 3 eastbound. It is not unusual for a bus to take 20 minutes to acces the express lane once the bus is on the Turnpike exit ramp.
Most of my bus neighbors would happily switch to rail if it were more convienent. Unfortunatly, it's a two bus ride to the nearest NJT rail station, about a mile away. A bus shuttle between the station and the town during rush hours might be feasible. It's done in other areas, like Chicago.
There are quite a few private bus companies who operate into NYC and pay for "slots" at PA Terminal...NJT took over the old Public Service Transportation or Bus Company which was by and large an intra state operator rather than inter state leaving people at the river edge for ferry or Tube services while the private companies went across the GW Bridge and later through the Lincoln and Holland tunnels; the PA terminal was a consolidation of mid town terminals and didn't come about until the early 50's. So many, if not most, NJT bus routes are remnants, extensions, or full routes to serve inside the State rather than outside into Philadelphia and New York City. Major highway construction and major private commuter rail contraction expanded the bus operations until NJT got a handle on the rail part in the late 60's and early 70's. Another one of those situations where there is no single answer but many contributing and contradicting situations which played out rather than planned into existence.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
OvermodI feel sorry for all the poor West Windsor rodents who had to run around when their train came in. But it was better than most of their ;mass transit alternatives', wouldn't you agree? ;-}
I can't say whether or not the bus from Princeton or Route 1 is as good as the train to Manhattan. I never rode the bus. Nor would I.
sandyhookkenMost of my bus neighbors would happily switch to rail if it were more convienent. Unfortunatly, it's a two bus ride to the nearest NJT rail station, about a mile away. A bus shuttle between the station and the town during rush hours might be feasible. It's done in other areas, like Chicago.
New Jersey Transit is like the little girl who had a little curl. When it is good it is very very good but when it is bad it is horrid.
henry6 Another one of those situations where there is no single answer but many contributing and contradicting situations which played out rather than planned into existence.
NJT has built some new railroad stations. But very few bus routes have been changed to reach them. I find it strange; it seems to me that after going to the expense of a new railroad station routing near by bus routes there ought to be pretty obvious. But I guess it isn't obvious to NJT.
John WRI can't say whether or not the bus from Princeton or Route 1 is as good as the train to Manhattan. I never rode the bus. Nor would I.
Normally, you would not catch me dead on a long-distance bus, but Surburban Transit via New Brunswick was not a bad ride. Did it many times, but JUST missed riding one of the snazzy-looking orange-and-black Old Looks, with the openable windows. (But did see a Reading RS unit, the one and only one I ever saw, switching the strategic-materials depot)
Was MUCH more convenient to take the bus from Princeton than have to make connection via the Dinky, ESPECIALLY if you were subsequently going somewhere in New Jersey (this being long before the age of Midtown Direct -- but even now, none of those trains go anywhere near where I was going). That is particularly true if traveling after the Dinky stopped running. Buses went until 2:00 am, and many is the time I rode those. Half-hour departures across from the Fitzrandolph Gates, for considerably less than NJT train fare even before you factored in the Dinky ride. (And this was back in the evil old days of the plastic seated Silverliners, if I recall correctly some of which had that abominable backward seating).
Whenever I had to ride Silverliners I used the rear vestibule/cab, with the board seat you could sneak down in a pinch, and watch the right of way spin behind you (and the speedometer reach well over 100 mph between stops west of New Brunswick -- that seemed impressive then, and still does now). But it is hard to beat stretching out on the back bench of one of those fishbowls, or better, the MCI coaches Suburban Transit bought, and take a happy air-conditioned two-hour nap, then walking over to the 166 or 78 platform without walking uptown or paying a subway fare.
When I went to the Junction, most of the time I would far rather watch trains than ride them.
Situation was radically different when I was going to Philadelphia, of course ... but the Princeton-New York service was a special thing.
I used to ride Lakeland Bus from Denville to NY. I had to go uptown rather than Downtown and it was cheaper than the train. I rode the train when I commuted to and from Hoboken and because I wanted to. Lakeland wasn't a bad ride...I'm talking back in the late 50's and early 60's..but there were traffic jams especially on what is now Route 3, back then S3, and the bus did some back roads to serve Towaco and Montville and Boonton instead of just drive Rt 46. I never tried the Public Service 116, the Bloomfield Avenue run from I think Netcong through Denville to Newark, though...I think it was well over an hour to Newark.
When I lived in Hopewell Township and wanted to take the train I simply went directly to Princeton Junction. Years ago when I was a student at Rutgers I would take the train and the Dinky to get to McCarter Theater.
henry6 I never tried the Public Service 116, the Bloomfield Avenue run from I think Netcong through Denville to Newark, though...I think it was well over an hour to Newark.
Right now I ride NJT's local bus no. 72. It runs from Paterson to Newark Penn Station along Broad Street in Bloomfield and turns onto Bloomfield Avenue at the end of Broad Street. On weekdays Bloomfield Avenue is always clogged with traffic.
In my day 72 was Ledgewood to Morristown via Dover, Rockaway and Denville.!
New Jersey Transit has renumbered many bus routes to have a more or less consistent system.
Another article that also adresses parking problems for bus riders. wonder how much parking for buses and trains is really needed in NJ ?
http://www.nj.com/hunterdon-county-democrat/index.ssf/2013/03/demand_for_mass_transit_to_nyc.html
blue streak 1 wonder how much parking for buses and trains is really needed in NJ ?
wonder how much parking for buses and trains is really needed in NJ ?
A lot of lots. If you check parking lots at outlying stations, even on MNRR and LIRR, you'll find many cars from well beyond the town or station name limits...Some will drive about an hour to get to the parking lot from areas way off line. I don't know what the taxi situation is anymore...when Ridewithmehenry is on a trip we rarely see taxis at the stations except maybe along the LI shore. Back in the day in Denville, for instance, there used to be four or five cab companies with as many as five cabs each, to meet the rush hour trains....today, as I said, I've not noticed any or maybe one or two cabs. So, apparently more are driving and parking.
This article is about people who live along I-78, a relatively recent interstate highway that runs east and west from Elizabeth. It parallels the Raritan Valley rail line which was originally the Central Railroad of New Jersey. Hunterdon County is on our western border. People from Pennsylvania also park along I-78 and use the bus service.
If you read the comments some people believe that the buses are faster and more convenient than the rail line which is why those particular parking lots are so crowded.
For all of that this area probably has the fewest commuters in the state.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.