DeggestyAnd, you have the British Columbia Ferries granting reduced fares to British Columbia residents only.
If a non British Columbian who was never the less a Senior Citizen snuck onto the ferry passing himself off as a British Columbian would that person be incarcerated?
And what about a half qualifier? What if a person were only British or only Columbian (as in the District of Columbia). Could that person get at least a quarter off the fare?
And, you have the British Columbia Ferries granting reduced fares to British Columbia residents only.
Johnny
schlimmBut it certainly seems that those personal reports of riding transit in Boston, NYC/NJ, Philadelphia and Chicago, with old and established services and newer services in Charlotte and (gasp!) Dallas show well-patronized, even crowded trains, especially but not only at the rush hours.
But there is other evidence which is not anecdotal, Schlimm. For example, New Jersey Transit's Northeast Corridor trains make a profit.
Of course much of what we all personally observe is strictly anecdotal (for some, many, many anecdotes ) But it certainly seems that those personal reports of riding transit in Boston, NYC/NJ, Philadelphia and Chicago, with old and established services and newer services in Charlotte and (gasp!) Dallas show well-patronized, even crowded trains, especially but not only at the rush hours.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimmI'm also not sure the wisdom of NJT's 1/2 fare at 62, when many/most are still working full time.
Actually I am sure of the lack of wisdom of NJT's half fare at 62, especially during peak times. Many NJT trains run with standing room only. I think if you ride at peak times you should be treated like a peak time rider.
henry6SEPTA and PATH requires an application in advance. However,
I know PATH requires an advance application along with a picture and a notarized signature. It seems ironic that the system which actually has relatively low fares puts all of these hurdles in the way of senior citizens. However, I remember it wasn't all that long ago PATH refused, absolutely refused, to give any discount to either seniors of the disabled.
My experience with SEPTA is different than yours. I can get a senior citizen discount there by just showing my Medicare card. However, perhaps they have programs for people with disabilities with no Medicare and seniors under 65.
MidlandMike Has ridership total been effected by the higher fares?
Has ridership total been effected by the higher fares?
New Jersey Train fares increased 25 per cent on May 1, 2010. Their Fact Sheet for Fiscal 2011 (July 1, 2010 to June 30, 2011 reports 79,632, 021 rail trips. There is also a Quarterly Report published the first quarter of 2013. It has bar graphs which show the number of trips in 2011 relative to 2010 was down slightly--I would guess about 10,000 trips. Looking at the data the bar graphs may be based on calendar year figures. In any event, in 2010 the number of trips returned to the 2010 level. Other charts show ridership tends to follow the unemployment rate and 2011 was a relatively high unemployment year. It looks to me like unemployment is more of a reason for the loss of riders in 2011 than the fare increase.
Here is a link to the Quarterly Report: http://media.nj.com/bergen_impact/other/1Q2013.pdf
I've been riding in and around the NY area for almost 70 years. But in the past 20 years the ridewithmehenry rides on all lines in and out of NY city, plus some SEPTA riding, weekdays and weekends, we have seen an increase in intermediate and off peak riding. As I mentioned, at center city terminals in and out the trains are usually crowded, yes, and often SRO during peak periods. But the number of passengers riding between intermittent stations and going out to the end of the line from line stations rather than terminals, has increased. Admittedly you may have a two car, maybe with only one open car, on outlying connections, but the assigned equipment is fully utilized. But you are right, I am only comparing MNRR, LIRR, NJT, and SEPTA in New York and Philadelphia respectively...what the situation is with MTA, MBTA, MARC, Los Angelis, et al. may be different.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
henry6; Maybe metro NYC is different and there may be variations on lines, but most Metra lines here seem to serve a pretty wide cross-section of suburbanites going into the city. My occasional experience on Metro North to and from New Haven shows a similar ridership. Even on a May weekend outbound to NH, the train was crowded. My rides on the former LIRR were limited to the Port Jeff line: diverse ridership and crowded.
No, most former riders do return especially when the grind of parking on four lane highways for long periods of time without a drink and the evening TV news or without the chairing the A.M. meeting you called for comes into play, as the cost of gas goes up but mileage goes down because you don't cruise at 60 mph but are stuck in five mile long traffic jams or move at a pace slower than a toddler's walk. Not only do they return, they often bring more with them.
I question, quietly, the 62 year old discount, too. Yes, I took advantage of it as an occasional rider but I do know several who have taken advantage of it because it is cheaper than a commuter's discount. Even 65 has become questionable as more have to or do work full time beyond that age. In defense of the age factor, there were, or are, many who were forced into early retirements due to downsizing or having assumed they assumed enough fortune not to work (those are the ones returning to work using the discount?). Originally the idea was to encourage off peak use of public transit...but they also, at NJT anyway, used to have peak and off peak fares for the same reason. And the present system has allowed for NJT to expand and need to expand service despite the increased fares...so it is working in NJT's favor in that respect. In our Ridwithmehenry ventures we find that all trains on all lines are at or near capacity for 80% of their trips...the 100% at city terminals and least at outlying terminals. And surprising, too, is the increasing number of intermediate riders, too. I am speaking of all NJT, MNRR, and LIRR lines and those SEPTA lines we have ridden: Trenton to 30th St., Doylstown to and from inner city, inner city to Norristown and Media to inner city. So, not only does the fare appear to be fair, there seems to be more and more people using the services for commuting and non commuting purposes, peak and off peak and weekends. Maybe Sam1 is right that this represents only the poor and only 5% of the total people who travel. If so, then, there must be many more who would ride if more services were provided and it were marketed and advertised to be used.
I'm not so sure that the previous riders return in a few years following a fare hike. Perhaps if the hikes are done in small amounts yearly or even semi-annually, the impact can be ameliorated. One mistake Metra has made, following the pattern of the private lines, is having big increases every three years. I'm also not sure the wisdom of NJT's 1/2 fare at 62, when many/most are still working full time.
Initially whenever there is a fare increase there is a dip in ridership. But that usually turns back to previous ridership levels. Plus with higher gas prices, rising parking fees, and more crowded conditions on the roads in general, commuter transit keeps rising. And mid day travel and intermediate station travel has increased, too, as the service becomes available...not necessarily a Field of Dreams, but if service is offered, is consistent and reliable, timed right, and inexpensive, it will attract riders despite lack of advertising.
NJT is generous to those 62 and over with discounts of about 60% in many cases. Amtrak is also at 62 yrs old and will give a 15% discount on certain fares. I know MNRR, LIRR, MTA, PATH, and SEPTA all give 50% or better discounts for those over 65 but qualifying is different: MNRR and LIRR you can buy single ride tickets on the spot except for Peak Hours; SEPTA and PATH requires an application in advance. However, SEPTA does have an $11 all day-all services fare for anyone which can be cheaper and less hassle than a Senior fare. NJT has the inter line fare whereby the one way charge for the longest segment or highest charge per segment will be the fare instead of a combine line fare. Thus a Senior can ride from Port Jervis to Hackettstwon, HIgh Bridge, Princeton, Trenton, or Bay Head for $10 one way while regular adult fare would be $20.25; round trips would be $20 and $49.50 respectively. Each commuter agency has its own marketing programs and fare arrangements, I am sure.
The RTA in Chicago (CTA, Metra and Pace) area gives 1/2 fare for seniors, but not until age 65. The fare is good at any time. There is no discount for off-peak times. On the weekend, anyone can ride anywhere on all Metra lines as much as they want, all day on Saturday or Sunday for $7.00
CSSHEGEWISCHBecause New Jersey Transit needed the revenue.
I know that after Governor Christie cut their budget from the state they were in a deep hole and had to take strong action fast.
There are two other things they might have considered, though.
1. A monthly commuter ticket is about 30 per cent less than the daily fare over the same period of time. They might have reduced the discount to 20 or 25 per cent.
2. NJT is very generous to senior citizens. Beginning at age 62 seniors ride for half fare, sometimes a little less and there is no restriction on when seniors may ride. If you are a senior and ride in the middle of the rush hours you still get half fare. Today many people are still working at 62 and take advantage of senior citizen fares. NJT might limit senior fares to non rush hour periods.
Because New Jersey Transit needed the revenue. Metra has done a similar increase by eliminating the 10% discount on 10-ride tickets.
Not too long ago NJT offered offpeak fares. They allowed a person who paid the full fare one way to have a reduced fare for the return portion. Rush hour trains were blacked out; the tickets could only be sued outside of the rush hour.
In May, 2010 NJT increased rail fares 25 per cent to make up for a loss of state aid under Governor Christie. NJT abolished offpeak fares at that time.
I wonder why.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.