PATCO -Philly to Camden and Lindenwold and BART on the other coast. I know PATCO has an attendant of some kind but you can ride in the first seat in the left row and see out the front window as you cross the bridge....
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Actually, Henry, today the technology probably exists for the Port Authority to run the trains without a motor person.
During the weekend round robbin I believe both motormen stay with the train...the crowds on the platform do not allow the motormen time to keep running from end to end of the train, especially at Hoboken. They probably save five to ten minutes a trip in Hoboken alone. At the end of the day they probably come out even, maybe even ahead.
On the round robin, which replaces two services, both 33-J.Sq. and 33-Hob, do both motormen stay with the train for the whole run? This would be wasteful. The motorman that brings the train in from JSq to Hoboken should leave, as the new one boards at what is now the front. There is enough time between trains to walk the length of the platform. A one-train drop-back motorman schedule could save them money.
Dave,
Perhaps the Port Authority is considering your idea.
On another thread we discussed the fact that the PA is considering extending its trains to Newark Liberty Airport. If it does do that it would make a lot of sense to provide service to 33rd Street as well as the other stations on that line in Manhattan.
John
Indeed, Dave, nothing is made as simple as it could and looks simpler than it is. I've wondered about the Newark-Herald Sq. service angle, too. And as you've pointed out it is even more lucrative now than ever--I wonder if the recent special service showed them that! The only problem may be more employees may be needed...even by just extending the Journal Sq. trains. Most businesses are loath to hire real people today, and many government agencies are encouraged to do the same. Perhaps only two or three crews and two or three trainsets are needed, though.
And I'm not sure what they are saving by the weekend round robin trains except for equipment. My observation is that each train has two motormen, one at each end, to save time and not have the hassle of fighting the crowd aboard the train or on the platforms. And that virtual overcrowding makes me wonder why the round robin service in the first place?
I have long maintained that not running a Newark - Herald Square service (except when WTC is closed, as after Sandy and after 11-Sept-01) is simply wrong . NJT is over capacity on the route and should welcome the relief. I've written PATH letters about this . Using hostlers at Newark, it should be possible to run trains at least every three minutes and possible every two. Then going from Hoboken to Newark would involve only one change, at Newport.
Of course on weekends they have round robin train that goes from Herald Square to Hoboken and then reverses and runs to Journal Square, substituting for both the Herald Square - JS and Herald Square 0 Hoboken services . Then there is only one change, at JS.
Except during the rush hour period when service is most frequent, if I had to use PATH to go from Hoboken to Newark, I would use the WTC train to Grove Street, and cross to the other platform, making it only one change.
You are right, Dave. Taking the Waterfront Connection between Hoboken and Newark is better--much better--than taking the Path. In addition to sitting down on an uncrowded car I could always count on finding the New York Times on one of the seats.
But it wasn't all peaches and cream. In the morning I had 7 or 8 minutes to get from Track 3 to Track A so I could just stroll over and wait a few minutes for my train to roll in. In the evening it was different. First, I had to be at the door before it opened. The platform was wall to wall people who changed at Newark go get on my train which was an Atlantic Coast Line train. I would shout "coming off" and run through them as well as I could, run down the stairs and through the station to Track 2 and then run up the escalator to the waiting train and stop. Check the train. Was it the Philadelphia Express? If yes, wait. If no, jump in before the doors close. Usually I could find a seat but if I couldn't there was always a little floor space in the wheelchair securement area. Occasionally I would miss my train and have to take the next one to Princeton Junction but I usually made my close connection. That was my career as a dashing commuter.
What you are telling me is that what I call the "Reverse Kearney Connection" (a designation I may have learned from railfans or a train conductor, but nothing official) uses a stretch of the track (old main line) that PRR trains to Jersey City used before that track joined (but does not join today) the track that PATH uses and the H&M used. This is a fairly short stretch of the old main line, and the bulk of the old main line as far as the point west of Journal Square where the freight tracks join is, today, used only by PATH. I believe that west of this maze of connections and overpasses, just east of the Harrison station, there is or was crossover between NEC tracks and PATH. It may still be in for equipment delivaries, etc.
Depends I guess, Dave, on how you look at the track. PATH is and never was exclusively PRR but on the right of way not necessarily on the same tracks. The line from NYP to Hudson was a branch with the PRR main line from Exchange Place, Jersey City. Thus MP 0 was the bumping blocks at Exchange Pl. for the mainline and the middle of the platforms at NYP milepost 0 for the "branch" to Penn Sta. Thus at Hudson, even today while there is no more tower, there is a change of MP designations. The connection to the Morristown Line from the Corridor for Raritan Valley and Bay Head trains is east of Hudson on what is called Hudson Sec.(former PRR Mainline at Cape.and not from the Corridor itself. Morristown Line Mid Town Direct branches of from the north side of the Morristown Line to the Corridor where the Corridor crosses over the Morristown LIne and where the Center St. Branch goes under PATH toward Cape and Meadows Yards. I am not sure what you are calling the Reverse Kearny connection as it is not on track diagrams nor in employee timetables and rules.
The connection is NOT from the former PRR line to Jersey City but from the corridor to Penn Station. Again, the old PRR passenger line to Jersey City is exclusively PATH. The Kearney connection is what gives Morristown line trains a direct path to Penn Station, and the Reverse Kearney connection is what gives trains from Newark Penn Station a direct path to Hoboken. They are located in the same general area. The Hoboken terminal ride is good for a seat and also good when PATH is operating fully for people working at 23rd Street, 14th Street, 9th Street, and Christopher St. - Sheridan Square. It is better than changing to an electric at either Long Branch or Newark (and standing), then finding the subway or bus at Penn Station.
Glad to hear that, John. It helps me to assess and define service as opposed to just running trains. Yes, Hoboken to Newark Penn via PATH can be a lengthy exercise with a long wait with maybe two changes of trains and up to 20 minute wait for the Newark train at Journal Sq.
One of the problems with NJT's operations seems to be the lack of marketing, promoting, and advertising many of their services, schedules, and usability which could garner more riders and more support.
It is true, Henry, that the Waterfront Connection does not exactly have standing room only. But for people who work or live in Hoboken or even northern Hudson County it is a real convenience. For several months I lived in Pennington and worked in Hoboken. The Waterfront Connection was much faster, easier and more comfortable than the PATH train would have been. I changed trains at Newark Penn Station.
In summer some people use the Waterfront Connection to go to the shore. There was a time when, in some places, you could use your NJT ticket and not have to pay a beach fee but I don't know if that is still true.
NJT does have tracks connecting the former PRR line to Jersey City to the former DL&W Morristown line and does schedule weekday trains from Bay Head (two or three each way) daily and they used to do a couple of Raritan Valley trains on the weekends. These were as much for fueling and servicing as for any other reason as few passengers use them For one thing, it takes longer than if one were to ride from NYP or via PATH from WTC to Newark Penn to get to NYC. The advantage may be to reach ferry connections, or even bus connections, but the rider/commuter gains little else aside from a guaranteed seat. But, for the nostalgic smitten, the idea of a Broker leaving the lapping of Hudson River water to trek across the Meadows, down the Corridor and under hell bent for the nearby Jersey Shore, it has an attraction.
Before Sandy, several Bayhead Junction Jersey Shore diesel trains on weekdays, and not just the two rush hour trains, did run through Newark to Hoboken by what is called "the reverse Kearney connector." I rode one such train about 19 years ago. I believe this service has not been restored yet because PATH still had not restored service to Hoboken. Some High Bridge or Raritan trains my have run through Newark and ended at Hoboken, also, at least at one time.
The PRR passenger track from Newark to Jersey City is now PATH's property and exclusively used by PATH subway trains, with the catenary removed. It used to be shared by H&M/PATH, PRR steam/diesel and mu electric, and Lehigh Valley trains. The frieght track bypassed Newark Station and joined the passsenger track after the junction with the H&M/PATH. It still exists and is owned and operated by Contrail Shared Assetts.
Does New Jersey Transit's Waterfront Connection to Hoboken have any physical connection with the former PRR's Jersey City terminal's route? How come this route is seldom used by NJTransit? If using Google map where would I locate this ramp? Why can't NJT start running more trains from Trenton or Bayhead straight to Hoboken?
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