I was using LIRR timetable milages in which Montauk is, I believe, measured from Long Island City. Width, just a wild guess, yes, but I thought 20 miles wide was too small but I guess not.
Edit add: 6/19/60 ETT actually shows Montauk at MP115.8 from LIC via the Lower Montauk, St. Albans and Valley Stream! And Greenport at 94.3 from, I think LIC via Hunterspoint to Jamaica. Difference from NYP and LIC is not expressed.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
I liked your post but your geography is pretty bad. Long Island is 125 miles from the East River to Montauk Point. I have driven it many times and once in a TSD sports car rally. I lived in Queens, Bay Shore, and Coram from 1960 to 1977. Coram is 60 miles east of the crossings to Manhattan. I drove 45 minutes to an hour to work and was still in Suffolk County.
As for width, the total width is about 15 to 20 miles. However a lot the south shore if formed by Great South Bay, which is 5 miles wide in places. The North Shore is formed of several deeply indented bays and inlets that effectively narrow the space available for east-west roads. Only east of Port Jefferson is the North Shore smooth.
So the effective width of LI is for major highways is 10 to 12 miles and all of the three major roads are within 5 miles of each other. If one jams, they all jam as people switch over. In bad weather I have seen the traffic jams start 55 miles east of Manhattan.
Without the much maligned LIRR traffic on LI would be in gridlock most workdays.
Jack
In the late 60s and early 70s (at least), they had school passes, especially useful for Island students attending parochial or private schools in Queens.
Most suburban operations distinguish between monthly unlimited tickets (person to whom sold only) and multiple-ride tickets, which were not restricted to one specific person. When my brother or I needed to go downtown, Mom would let us use her 25-ride ticket, which was usually down to its last few rides by that time.
As an aside, when I was in high school, I regularly purchased a 25-ride ticket between 115th Street and Hegewisch for the ride home from school.
Yeah, lots of us kids used Dad's commute punch card when needed with little problem...NYC, PRR, DL&W, E, CNJ, NH, etc. Summer of '57 at age 14 working for my father had my own each week!
The LIRR! I rode it quite often back in the day. I used to ride from Amityvile to see my girlfriend in Albertson. Change at Jamaica and on the Albertson train there was an Alco FA at one end and an FM at the other. That was in 1972, I wonder for how long that equipment was used. I also used to borrow my uncle's commuter pass to Penn Station when I was 12 years old so I could$1****$2away my lawn-mowing money at Polk's. A 12 year old with a commuter pass? the LIRR guys never said a word!
I'm still having problems getting photo's up.
.but NKPGuy: you'd be surprised at the ride today...welded rail, new signaling system, bi level cars, really quite a different ride than back in '97. But I miss the train orders being hooped up at Patchogue, and the old walk over seats of a plush coach (yeah, the LI did use the parlor cars and better coaches for the Montauk trains), (and the chugging of an Alco, or better yet, an FM opposed piston of days way before '97). And through it all, the trains to the East End are still crowded whether you go to Greenport or Montauk!
I'm still working on figureing out how to get pics up here....
henry6 I've got some scattered around my computer someplace or another...mostly of what others have taken along the way as I am a neanderthal toting a 35mm outfit instead of contemporary digital. See what I can find to put together here in the next evening or two. And then figure out how to upload them here!
I've got some scattered around my computer someplace or another...mostly of what others have taken along the way as I am a neanderthal toting a 35mm outfit instead of contemporary digital. See what I can find to put together here in the next evening or two.
And then figure out how to upload them here!
Henry-
Yes! Post stuff! Do it with Picasa and picasaweb from Google, then post a link here.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
The LIRR probably is the "most important" way of moving Long Islanders to and from NYC. They carry about 250,000 commuters a day. That's 125 highway vehicle lane-days. Spread over 3 morning and evening "rush hours" (which is generous), that's equivalent to 11 four lane highways - more than exist on Long Island. The real value of the LIRR can be measured by how much it would cost to replace what it does with highway - which is the reason the state only funded one LIE and then shifted funding to the LIRR.
Have enjoyed the discussion this morning. Not political or heavy handed.
Your tours sound very interesting. Do you have any videos/photos to share of your adventures?
I think I came off too strong in my last post. I meant to indicate that I feel my observations riding the LIRR might or could override theoretical statistics. I didn't mean to sound so heavy handed and pontifical.
Uncle! I give up. If you had only said "a very important." instead of "the most important". I agree with everything you say about how vital the LIRR is to the metro area. BTW - I was born and raised in the lower Hudson Valley and my ancestors were from Hempstead. Have a great rest of your day.
I can't find any information on you, bedell, where you are and can't tell what about LI and the LIRR you might know. LI is just that: an island less than 50 miles wide at its widest, over 100 miles long. It is crowded with poeple and roads. The LIRR carries more commuters than any other railroad in the country and operates at least 600 trains every 24 hours (broad, general terms; stats are available if you google or bing LIRR as there are quite a few web pages devoted to it). If the railroad stopped running and if every commuter teamed up with two other commuters for an automobile commute, it would be bedlam on the roads. Alternative use of bus would be just as bad if there are enough buses and drivers to begin with. Commuters into and ouf of NYC and Atlantic Terminal are only part of the overall operation: everytime I have ridden the railroad, no matter what line, no matter what time of day or day of the week, the trains are well patronized intra island. In times of storms when the LIRR stops running, so does life on LI. I work in a business that lives by statistics...and dies by statistics. The anecdotal results often outweight the statistical indications. My observations riding the LIRR overide theoretical statistics.
But, I still wonder about the statement: "the most important means of moving people..." That kind of statement seems to need something to back it up besides anecdotal evidence.
You don't need stats to figure this one out. Sunday afternoons and evenings westbound trains are full and late owing to dwell times. This timetable an additional train has been added from Bridgehamton to relieve the problem. Yesterday scheduled westbound trains were full and running late due to the heavy load demands even though two passenger extra's were operated from Speonk. Stats will tell you one thing but demand, use, and operations tell you what's happening. You can have a zillion automobiles licensed to Long Islanders but if the trains are full and over crowded the automobile ownership means nothing.
"The entire railroad is often maligned yet it is the most important means of moving people around LI and to and from the Big Apple. "
More important than the private automobile?
I agree that the LIRR does provide an important service to the area but what are the stats comparing LIRR passengers vs. people in cars? I hope I'm wrong!
One of the most fascinating commuter/passenger rail operations to me is the LIRR's Montauk service. The entire rairoad is often mailigned yet it is the most important means of moving people around LI and to and from the Big Apple. As a whole, it is not underused but often overused and abused in so many ways. With the Monauk services, especially summer weekends, it seems that no matter what they schedule it is never enough or "just right". I think this year was the first time an additional train has been added to the schedule westbound (to NYC) from Bridgehampton because the two afternoon Montauk trains were often swamped creating overcrowded conditions, long dwell times, missed Jamaica connections and otherwise late trains. This afternoon (Sun 7/31/11) they have added an additional passenger extra from Speonk to NYC and extended the 1:23 PM departure from Monauk to Jamaica on into Penn Station because of the overcrowding. Sunday afternoons and evenings are interesting to watch to see how many people don't use passenger train service. At 102 miles from NYP, Montauk is more a "passenger" rather than a "commuter" service. And it seems every train the LIRR runs on this route (again especially summer weekends) are full and late to accomodate the crowds. And I have to admire the LIRR for scrambling up a passenger extra to help themselve alleviate the congestion and give the public a decent a ride as possible!
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