In a sidebar to the following article:
http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,665194834,00.html
Utah Transit provided the following estimates on the annual cost to commute:
Cost of driving a car vs. taking mass transit
Nationwide, the average driver spends 52.2 cents per mile to operate and maintain a car, according to AAA. The IRS rate for business mileage reimbursement is 48.5 cents per mile. Both numbers include gasoline, insurance and depreciation costs. Given those numbers, here's a look at how much it costs a driver who commutes five days a week and 50 weeks a year to travel to work.
Annual cost to commute, AAA:
10 miles round-trip: $1,305 30 miles round-trip: $3,915 60 miles round-trip: $7,830 90 miles round-trip: $11,745
Annual cost to commute, IRS:
10 miles round-trip: $1,213 30 miles round-trip: $3,638 60 miles round-trip: $7,275 90 miles round-trip: $10,913
Annual cost to ride a Utah Transit Authority bus or TRAX
Regular adult fare (TRAX and regular buses) 2007: $642 2008: $702 2009: $804
Premium express adult fare (long distance, intercounty buses and TRAX) 2007: $1,284 2008: $1,740 2009: $1,944
dd
Jock Ellis Cumming, GA US of A Georgia Association of Railroad Passengers
I point to the Jersey Turnpike that I have seen built and rebuilt and wider every few years. It only filled with cars moving between 0-10 mph for more and more miles away from the Elizabeth Exit to the south for 5 then 10 then 20+ miles each day. Im absolutely convinced you can build the biggest, widest multi-lane/level juggernaut and it will fill up like a bad artery and fail to function effectively.
Oh, my car ran about 170 in gas this month. That is 2000 dollars a year for all driving, not just commute. Insurance is extra.
Safety Valve wrote: My car ran about 170 in gas this month. That is 2000 dollars a year for all driving, not just commute. Insurance is extra.
My car ran about 170 in gas this month. That is 2000 dollars a year for all driving, not just commute. Insurance is extra.
Right. Now, how about the cost of the car itself? Unless you won it on The Price is Right, it wasn't free.
Just registering my family's two vehicles cost me more than your month's gas, plus $60 for smog checks.
Almost forgot about scheduled and unscheduled maintenance...
OTOH, my cost to commute is zero, zilch, nada. That's one advantage of being retired. Still, I'd welcome a local mass transit system that would clear the smog-belchers (including mine) off the streets. (The local solution is busses. IMHO, this is not an improvement!)
Chuck
Let's see, Arkansas only gives you tags for 20 dollars provided you show that you paid your revenuer the taxes on the vehicle and own it either free and clear or with the proper lienholder. Very simple to do. And dont forget the insurance.
There is no smog or expensive inspection requirements and we dont feed a fleet of helicopters taking crashers to trauma. Life is very straight forward here in this part of the USA.
Our old car did 22 miles to gallon week in and week out. At 3.10 a gallon is about 19 gallons burned for about 59 dollars roughly each week for 420 miles.
The new car gets 32 miles to the gallon for a total of about 40 dollars for a savings of 19 dollars a week in gasoline expenses. There is a realized total monthly savings of about 76 dollars.
When applied to our new car payment the gas savings reduces our montly bill to less than 100 dollars including interest and our gas budget total for the month is reduced accordingly.
In the near future we expect to reduce the necessary mileage for all needs including commute to less than 150 miles a week.
Keep in mind we have another car free and clear, that one was filled up approx 2 months ago and still carries 80% of it's tank remaining. We only keep it in case the one goes down for some reason. We dont like to be a one vehicle family; too stressful.
Bottom line the old car carried a commute cost over 12 months that was pretty high, but when we junked it and got a newer replacment our total costs actually fell for the year. This is one situation where we are enjoying lower costs against this time last year.
In trucking there was no commute or associated problems. Just put yourself behind the wheel when it's time to put away 600 miles for the day. And plan it so you are either napping during the area's evening rush or eating meal during the morning one.
That wont slow them down in NYC. Not with those 2000 dollar a month apartments.
Dont worry, they have raised Tolls over the years at the Bridges and Tunnels. That is where the traffic is around NYC.
They can ban all the vehicles they want to, empty Long Island and STILL have jams.
And when the day is over the truckers take over running into the markets. But that is a story for another time.
In Boston or New York:
Drive 30 miles each way, 3 gal. of gas @ $3 = $9, now add $35 a day parking, total $44.
Take The Train!!!
Don U. TCA 73-5735
From Victoria Transportation Institute http://www.vtpi.org/
AUTOMOBILE COSTS
Per Veh Mile
Travel time $0.336 , Veh ownership $0.240. Crash damages $0.200,
Non residential off-street parking $0.120, Veh operation $0.100, Roadway costs $0.048
Traffic congestion $0.040, Environmental costs $0.040, Roadway land value $0.026
Residential parking $0.020, Fuel externalities $0.016, Traffic services $0.012
Equity impacts ?, Land use impacts ? Total $1.198
SAY $1.20/vehicle mile including direct cost to motorist + Cost to society
Percent subsidy using AAA operating costs per Veh mile (1.20-.522)/1.2= 54%
Assumimg average Veh occupancy of 1.3 $120/1.3= $0.924 per passenger mile
TRANSIT COSTS
"Transit Expenditures
Most direct transit service costs can be obtained from transit agency budgets. Table 5 summarizes U.S. transit service expenses and revenues. Detailed information is available on individual transit agencies. Expenses are divided into capital (facilities, equipment and other durable goods) and operation (labor, fuel and maintenance). Some costs, such as Park&Ride lots, special roadway facilities such as bus pullouts, and increased road maintenance due to bus traffic may be borne by other government agencies."
"Costs and revenues can vary significantly within a particular transit system, line or route. In general, urban-peak transit has higher costs, but also has higher load factors and so tends to have greater cost recovery (lower subsidies) per passenger-mile compared with off-peak and suburban/rural transit service. The costs of a particular transit improvement can vary widely depending on conditions, such as whether rights-of-way and equipment already exist or must be acquired. If a transit service already exists, it is sometimes possible to increase capacity at minimal marginal cost."
Expended per passenger mile: Bus $0.80, Trolley bus $1.99, Heavy rail $0.65,
Commuter rail $0.57, Demand response $2.78, Light rail $1.75. Other $0.69
Fare per passenger mile: Bus $0.19, Trolley bus $0.32, Heavy rail $0.18,
Commuter rail $0.15, Demand reaponse $028, Light rail $0.16, Other $0.13
Subsidy per passenger mile: Bus $0.61, Trolley bus $1.68, Heavy rail $0.46,
Commuter rail $0.41, Demand reaponse $2.50, Light rail $1.59, Other$ 0.56
Percent subsidy: Bus 76%, Trolley bus 84% , Heavy rail 72%,
Commuter rail 73%, Demand reaponse 90%, Light rail 91%, Other 81%
The AAA auto cost of $0.552 is a cost per vehicle mile. Assuming 1.3 people auto the cost per passenger mile is less than $0.43 for the automobile. which is lower than the expended per passenger mile for any of the transit modes listed.
Overal Transit is cheaper only because it is subsidized, and the figures do not include costs to society meaning that the true costs are higher than the amount expended.
The numbers above are averages. There are places where transit is a better choice than expending money to increase road capacity, but the decision should be made based on honest comparisions.
There are benefits to transit. There are also benefits to the auto. There are also costs to each. Transit advocates expouse the benifits of transit and hide the costs. They ignore the benifits of the auto and go to great lenghts to find cost to atribute to the auto. Highway advocates do the opposite.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
I find cars necesary only in remote areas, where the public transporation isn't good or does not exist, or in some conditions (you have small kids, you have a big and heavy thing to carry, medical emergincies). I wouldn't drive from Monday to Friday here, in Bucharest, Romania; people drive like maniacs... shees, at work I use a car (forutnley, I don't drive the car) and the car almost got hit numeros times, I sow a lot of drivers who didn't signaled before they made a turn...
And outside cityes... the majority of infrastructure is bad... but most drivers think they are Formula 1 pilots! - many crashes and many deads. Another reason to love the train.
DSchmitt wrote: The AAA auto cost of $0.552 is a cost per vehicle mile. Assuming 1.3 people auto the cost per passenger mile is less than $0.43 for the automobile. which is lower than the expended per passenger mile for any of the transit modes listed.Overal Transit is cheaper only because it is subsidized, and the figures do not include costs to society meaning that the true costs are higher than the amount expended. The numbers above are averages. There are places where transit is a better choice than expending money to increase road capacity, but the decision should be made based on honest comparisions.There are benefits to transit. There are also benefits to the auto. There are also costs to each. Transit advocates expouse the benifits of transit and hide the costs. They ignore the benifits of the auto and go to great lenghts to find cost to atribute to the auto. Highway advocates do the opposite.
The AAA driver costs doesn't include road (particularly local & residential) and public highway support services (police & fire for example) not covered by fuel taxes.
A good apples-to-apples, life cycle comparison of all costs and benefits is essential, but very difficult to do - particularly where you draw the lines around a project. Things like the value of a traveller's time and an improvment in air quality are difficult to quantify and may be non-linear.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
tomikawaTT wrote: Safety Valve wrote: My car ran about 170 in gas this month. That is 2000 dollars a year for all driving, not just commute. Insurance is extra.Right. Now, how about the cost of the car itself? Unless you won it on The Price is Right, it wasn't free.Just registering my family's two vehicles cost me more than your month's gas, plus $60 for smog checks. Almost forgot about scheduled and unscheduled maintenance...OTOH, my cost to commute is zero, zilch, nada. That's one advantage of being retired. Still, I'd welcome a local mass transit system that would clear the smog-belchers (including mine) off the streets. (The local solution is busses. IMHO, this is not an improvement!)Chuck
We got it for a 4 year term, the cost of the car was so little against our savings, we expect to have it paid off within the year, eliminating that monthly payment. In fact we are experiencing increased profits in the budget and may accelerate that payoff date closer.
We were considering a Import at the time which was almost double the cost but twice the mileage. We are glad we didnt buy it because it is really too "Kindergarden" for the bad quality freeways around my area. We prefer bigger vehicles because they can withstand road wear and tear better.
After it's paid off, the final operating cost will be just about .11 a mile. We get re-imbursed at .14 at work so we're happy. We have been changing our employment situation to stay close to home and be very independant from the necessity to commute daily.
We have hedged our bets by keeping employment options open to those who offer Van Transport so we dont have to buy a drop of gas to get to and from work.
oltmannd wrote: DSchmitt wrote: The AAA auto cost of $0.552 is a cost per vehicle mile. Assuming 1.3 people auto the cost per passenger mile is less than $0.43 for the automobile. which is lower than the expended per passenger mile for any of the transit modes listed.Overal Transit is cheaper only because it is subsidized, and the figures do not include costs to society meaning that the true costs are higher than the amount expended. The numbers above are averages. There are places where transit is a better choice than expending money to increase road capacity, but the decision should be made based on honest comparisions.There are benefits to transit. There are also benefits to the auto. There are also costs to each. Transit advocates expouse the benifits of transit and hide the costs. They ignore the benifits of the auto and go to great lenghts to find cost to atribute to the auto. Highway advocates do the opposite.The AAA driver costs doesn't include road (particularly local & residential) and public highway support services (police & fire for example) not covered by fuel taxes.A good apples-to-apples, life cycle comparison of all costs and benefits is essential, but very difficult to do - particularly where you draw the lines around a project. Things like the value of a traveller's time and an improvment in air quality are difficult to quantify and may be non-linear.
True.
But note I also compared society's cost for the auto with transit system costs. The $1.20 (cost to society) per veh mile figure for the auto does include include local road costs, fire and police, environmental costs, etc.. Using $1.20 as the total cost and the AAA figure as the auto owners cost, I calculated the subsidy as 54%. Thus the % subsidy per veh mile for the auto is lower than the % subsidy per passenger mile for any of the mass transit modes. If I used a per passenger mile figure for the auto, the auto subsidy would be even less.
Also note that the mass transit mode costs listed are costs for the transit system, they are not society costs, so are actually somewhat comparable to the AAA auto costs.
dldancedepreciation costs
But if you leave your car home and use public transit you still have the same depreciation cost. Of course there is less wear and tear on your car, a lower insurance premium and nothing to pay for parking.
Figures are out of date; IRS reimbursement has been something like 62 cents a mile for a while. Might have to check the figures with recent fuel cost to be sure. I suspect the situation may be even more advantageous for transit, at least on paper given the assumptions provided.
What these figures don't indicate is the time lost waiting for and riding the bus, and the inflexibility of the schedule. The ten-mile round trip in the car is scheduled at the driver's convenience, and goes directly from origin (perhaps in an air-conditioned or heated dry garage) to the point the driver is going. Except under extreme circumstances or traffic -- which will probably affect the bus as much as automobile in Utah, although I have no direct knowledge -- the assurance that a driver will reach work in a commute is high -- not so for the bus or TRAX, I suspect. Comparing apples to apples -- how long is a comparable trip, actual origin to actual destination, and what other costs might be involved...
Disclaimer: I make intensive use of mass transit many places I go, but I have the time for the three and a half hours each way it takes to make the 20-mile commute (it involves two bus transfers enroute)... let anything happen to delay a bus, and the time can go up dramatically. Not everyone has that kind of time when going to work; not everyone who works will be excused if their excuse is 'the bus was late'.
More to it than the money.
RME
According to an article in Trams and Urban Transit on TRAX and Front Runner, over 74% of Salt Lake City's working population use some form of public transit each day.
Does a person who drives to a commuter parking lot and uses light rail, commuter rail, bus, or whatever downtown count as a driver or as transit user?
Unless the statistics only care about people who walk or bike to where they get on the transit vehicle, people going to the station by car are transit users. (Methodology may establish some perimeter or limit for driving, probably in low-traffic or low-pollution areas, within which driving to transit counts as 'commuting' -- but I suspect that even something like my old practice when in Washington of driving to the most outlying Metro station for riding to Bethesda counts as 'transit use' for practical principles.)
If you leave out station parking, kiss 'n ride, and park n' ride lots for buses ... what kind of skewed transit numbers would you get? And how many people in Connecticut, or the Hudson Highlands, or New Jersey, or suburban Philadelphia, walk to the station vs. driving? Surely THAT would count as 'transit use' if you were counting... or as a bssis for analyzing the situation.
Of course, it would be VERY valuable to know statistics like 'how much driving is involved in station access' (there would be implications for things like BEV take rate, for example, or instantiation of subsidized or rental charge points with the most practical/social benefit...) vs. driving to destination.
The IRS rate for 2013 is 56.5 cents per mile for business miles driven.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
John WR But if you leave your car home and use public transit you still have the same depreciation cost.
But if you leave your car home and use public transit you still have the same depreciation cost.
Depreciation costs are another one size does not fit all. SOME persons will buy a new car every 2 -3 years, others when car is paid off, others when maintenance is too high, & others when the wheels fall off. Different persons will handle the depreciation expenses differently as long as it does not exceed IRS guidelines. Some deduct car payments, others on a per mile driven basis + interest on car loan until loan paid , and some other ways.
For those who trade a car in every 2 years then driving is a much more important item as there is no advantage to taking transit. OTOH those who wait until a new car absolutely needed ( e.g. the past financial crisis ) reducing mileage driven is very important.
OvermodOf course, it would be VERY valuable to know statistics like 'how much driving is involved in station access'
A lot. In north Jersey many people drive a relatively long distance to a parking lot for a fairly short commute into New York. Others drive a shorter distance but could not possibly get to the train without driving as for many people there is no bus route to the train station.
blue streak 1For those who trade a car in every 2 years then driving is a much more important item as there is no advantage to taking transit.
I think that for many who trade a car in every 2 years it is because they value a car for the status is confers. They would never ever use public transit under any circumstances.
John WRI think that for many who trade a car in every 2 years it is because they value a car for the status is confers. They would never ever use public transit under any circumstances.
The hell you say!
Lease agreements usually have restricted mileage, sometimes involving as little as 12,000 miles, and the penalty for going over can be Draconian. I easily approximate this mileage per year just driving the kids to school, and I can't be that special a case.
For that reason alone I would prefer commuter rail to long road commuting ... providing I had a quick, safe, relatively low-cost means to get where I'm going. (As in New York, and to a slightly lesser extent Philadelphia, or in Washington adjacent to the Metro).
There are similar arguments that apply to buses. When I lived in Englewood, there were two competing bus companies running both to GWB by way of Palisade Avenue, or to 40th St. via Engle St/Dean Drive. It was about a 10-minute walk for me to either of these, and the fare was a bit higher to 40th St as the distance was greater. At this time, I had a dedicated (free) parking space at 70th and York in Manhattan, and the driving time even with normal off-peak traffic on the FDR was... about 12 minutes. But I rode the bus regularly. You can easily appreciate why if you know New York...
OvermodI rode the bus regularly. You can easily appreciate why if you know New York...
I've lived close to New York for many years; now I am about 13 miles away if that far. But I would never drive in New York. Yes, I do appreciate why you rode the bus.
Metra commuter trains are not cheap. A monthly pass from a typical suburb like Naperville to Union Station, Chicago on the BNSF line is currently $163.75. If you drive and park, the quarterly charge is $110.00. In spite of that, the trains and parking lot are packed, plus the feeder buses are well-patronized.
schlimm the feeder buses are well-patronized.
One thing New Jersey Transit does not provide is feeder buses to train stations. That is such an obvious thing to do I can only wonder why they ignore it. After all, transit is all about connections.
Another reason why more people prefer to commute by transit rather than car in many cities.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-unreliable-traffic-0205-20130205,0,5296824.story
dldance In a sidebar to the following article: http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,665194834,00.html Utah Transit provided the following estimates on the annual cost to commute: Cost of driving a car vs. taking mass transit Nationwide, the average driver spends 52.2 cents per mile to operate and maintain a car, according to AAA. The IRS rate for business mileage reimbursement is 48.5 cents per mile. Both numbers include gasoline, insurance and depreciation costs. Given those numbers, here's a look at how much it costs a driver who commutes five days a week and 50 weeks a year to travel to work. Annual cost to commute, AAA: 10 miles round-trip: $1,305 30 miles round-trip: $3,915 60 miles round-trip: $7,830 90 miles round-trip: $11,745 Annual cost to commute, IRS: 10 miles round-trip: $1,213 30 miles round-trip: $3,638 60 miles round-trip: $7,275 90 miles round-trip: $10,913 Annual cost to ride a Utah Transit Authority bus or TRAX Regular adult fare (TRAX and regular buses) 2007: $642 2008: $702 2009: $804 Premium express adult fare (long distance, intercounty buses and TRAX) 2007: $1,284 2008: $1,740 2009: $1,944 dd
There is one HUGE flaw in this analysis. It assume all car ownership costs are mileage based. A major portion of car ownership cost is time based. Depreciation is largely time based. A big chunk of insurance cost is fixed. Some maintenance costs are time based (e.g. rubber parts age just hanging around)
If you can get rid of a car by using transit, then you are a huge winner.
If you are willing to put up driving a "beater" to transit where you would have purchased a new car otherwise, you are a sure winner, but the "winnings" are smaller
If you need a car to get to transit, then you need to look only at the incremental mileage based cost of ownership. Your insurance goes down, a bit. Your car depreciates a bit more slowly. You can do oil a bit less frequently. Tires and brakes last longer.
This stuff, plus gas is more in the 10-20 cents per mile range. This is in the same range as commuter rail or "premium" express bus service.
These types of studies are generally not helpful to the cause of transit. They just reduce the credibility of the pro-transit crowd.
John WR schlimm the feeder buses are well-patronized. One thing New Jersey Transit does not provide is feeder buses to train stations. That is such an obvious thing to do I can only wonder why they ignore it. After all, transit is all about connections.
They do in South Jersey, particularly to PATCO, but also to the AC Line trains.
nokia3310I heared that in N.Y.C. they want to impose a tax for using the car, because the traffic jams costs the city to much money.
oltmanndThey do in South Jersey, particularly to PATCO, but also to the AC Line trains.
Don,
I'm happy to hear NJT uses feeder bus routes in south Jersey. In Mercer County some bus routes go by what they call "Trenton Transit Center" but a number do not. And there are bus routes which run a couple of miles from Hamilton Station but never quite get there. Where I live now, in Bloomfield, bus routes run close to Bloomfield Station but again, not within a comfortable walking distance. They run under the tracks at Broad Street Station except you have to take your life in your hands to cross the street. And most buses (but not all) end at Newark Penn Station. So I have to say we sort of have a feeder bus system but it is not nearly as good as it might be.
John
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.