zugmannOnce you put on your mask, you aren't really supposed to be touching it again.
Talking and other 'expulsive' activities are the likely source of the problem, and the mask should be in place 'in public' during the time those activities actually go on.
There's been speculation that virus loaded micro-droplets are much more likely to cause an infection than an individual virus "aerosol". Reason given is that the immune system has little trouble taking care of one virus at a time, but gets overwhelmed by the multitude of virus contained in a droplet. A mask will block much of the expulsion of droplets as well as prevent a fraction of the droplets from being inhaled.
I'd also wonder if masks help by increasing the average air temperature and humidity in the airways, thus weakening the virus. I've come across scuttlebutt suggesting that the primary virus load is found on the outside of the mask.
JPS1Do you think the requirement would be enforceable?
In New York City.....Haah, Haah, Haah, ROFLMAO......
BEAUSABRE JPS1 Do you think the requirement would be enforceable? In New York City.....Haah, Haah, Haah, ROFLMAO......
I live in the Rio Grande Valley during the cooler months and central Texas during the warmer months.
Home Depot recommends that its patrons wear masks. Yesterday, I noted that maybe 25 to 30 percent of the persons at Home Depot had some type of face cover.
In a couple of weeks, the temperatures in Texas will be chasing the century mark. The masks are hot. Whether people will continue to wear them is problematic.
I wear a mask when among others. I don’t believe it is terribly effective, but if others believe that masks help stop the spread of the virus, I am willing to go along.
JPS1, I was brought up 20 miles from Times Square and am have been back in suburban New Jersey since I retired from the Army in 2000. There's this thing called "New York Attitude" and it's not for nothing residents of the Rotten Apple are known for their rudeness. Once the panic ends, any suggestion about wearing masks will be met with "Fuhgetaboutit!".
The situation in Israel and my personal situation is discussed in several posts in the Overreaction thread on the Passenger Forum, if you are interested.
To sum up, I've returned to commutinig and use taxis on occasion and public transit. On public transit everyone wears masks and practices social distancing to the extent possible with Egged buses and light rail cashless and drivers protected. I wear a mask outside the Yeshiva and outside my apartment. The Yeshiva practices social distancing but not masks.
The government via the DoD caused the mask shortage issue via Emergency Powers in which it took over all means of production in the United States of the N95 mask and redirected it to the medical people. They have a huge inventory of unused N95 masks at this point in time and are exporting some to other countries, at some point, they are going to dump them all on the open market again and that will be an interesting sight to see what the price ends up being when that happens. I have stock in 3M which was one of the companies in which the government became the sole customer overnight of the N95 mask.
I am not sure if they did the same with the paper masks or if those are still available via market purchase. You can buy the N95 mask on the internet at inflated prices but it is not produced by any U.S. manufacturer. I think I bought a box of 20 for $100 and had them delivered to my mailbox in 3-5 days.
Paper masks are available locally in my area. Its like $30 plus tax for a box of 100.
I'll need them as while my county has finally been placed on green, masks will still be required for all stores and other buildings and it is rigidly enforced.
It hasn't gotten much national attention but, like Cuomo, PA's governor (Wolf) forced the nursing homes to take their infected residents back rather than keeping them in the hospital. So far about 70% of our pandemic's deaths are from nursing homes and the nursing homes, including their staffs, are where a majority of the current cases are located. Meanwhile, our local hospitals are about 25 to 30 occupied, staff have been laid off, the hospitals are going broke, and they still can't take any in-patients other than emergencies due to his orders.
MY bad --it should read 25%-30% below.
alphasMeanwhile, our local hospitals are about 25 to 30 occupied, staff have been laid off, the hospitals are going broke, and they still can't take any in-patients other than emergencies due to his orders.
They did loosen up some of the restrictions:
https://www.health.pa.gov/topics/Documents/Diseases%20and%20Conditions/Guidance%20on%20Hospital%20Responses%20to%20COVID-19.pdf
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Not sure if many of you caught the latest news item about the Great Clips hair salon in Missouri. None of the customers that got cuts from the two COVID-19 positive stylists have tested positive after two weeks. While it isn't proof that masks are 100% effective, it is pretty conclusive that they will greatly reduce the spread of the disease.
This potentially very good news for transit.
zugmann Murphy Siding Can someone explain this to me? I see lots of people wearing masks as they drive. These are commuters going to and from work- in cars by themselves. Huh? ONce you put on your mask, you aren't really supposed to be touching it again. So the proper way would be to wash your hands, put the mask on, leave it on until you are done with all your mask-y errands.
Murphy Siding
Can someone explain this to me? I see lots of people wearing masks as they drive. These are commuters going to and from work- in cars by themselves. Huh?
ONce you put on your mask, you aren't really supposed to be touching it again. So the proper way would be to wash your hands, put the mask on, leave it on until you are done with all your mask-y errands.
You're not supposed to touch it, but there's really no reason for you to keep your mask on while doing what ever it is you're doing. I personally only put it on when I go into a store and I remove it as soon as I step back outside. It's my mask, it's to protect the others from my droplets, I don't need to protect myself from my own droplets(I also do not wash my hands each time I touch it). Wearing it outside when walking or what ever is totally useless, you're not standing in one area for up to 10 minutes around the same people...that's the minimum time needed to transmit.
There is reason to believe that masks help in protecting the wearer as well. Studies of super-spreader events (e.g. the choir practice in Washington state) suggest that a large number of viruses are needed to establish an infection. Most people's immune systems are capable of handling a single virus, but multiple viruses will overload the immune system. In essence, the masks need to block the droplets, but don't necessarily need to block an individual virus.
Wearing a mask also increases the temperature and humidity of the air in the upper respiratory tract, both of which are known to weaken the virus.
daveklepper I have not left the Yeshiva since 6 days ago, and before that there was a gap of five dqys. When I went to a drugstore and two food stores 6 days ago I wore a face-mask given me a fellow student (married with an apartment on the campus) who is also a health-care worker and still works, wearing a face mask. Today I planned to do the same thing, but anoher married student with car offered to do my shopping, and I took him up on the offer. He wears a face-maks outside the Yeshiva. As of today, it is mandatory. All the other single students are at their homes. The Yeshiva office is now also my bedroom. The amount of office work now is minimal and does not interfere with my use, and the office has its own John.
I have not left the Yeshiva since 6 days ago, and before that there was a gap of five dqys. When I went to a drugstore and two food stores 6 days ago I wore a face-mask given me a fellow student (married with an apartment on the campus) who is also a health-care worker and still works, wearing a face mask. Today I planned to do the same thing, but anoher married student with car offered to do my shopping, and I took him up on the offer. He wears a face-maks outside the Yeshiva. As of today, it is mandatory.
All the other single students are at their homes. The Yeshiva office is now also my bedroom. The amount of office work now is minimal and does not interfere with my use, and the office has its own John.
In the United States it has been for at least two months that anyone that leaves the religious community has to self quarantine for two weeks before rejoining it with no exceptions. They have a seperate living quarters for the quarantine that is usually a small apartment. They bring the prepared meals to each quarantine apartment. Once they rejoin the community it is just like normal assisted living and they can interact and participate with others. While they are in their apartment someone else does the grocery shopping for them and when the groceries are recieved they go through a special wipedown or decontamination process by hand.
I'm pretty sure it was only the state or government run homes in the United States that had the issues with virus killing off swaths of people. There might have been one or two private homes as well but typically they are so fearful of lawsuits it would surprise me if there was a lot of them. The seminaries and convents all worked this way in the United States and I have not heard of an issue of the virus sweeping through any of their communities. My Aunt provides me all the info in this area though.
I've reported on other threads on the removal of restrictions in Israel and their gradual partial restoration resulting from the overoptimism of the govenment producing a second wave.
These days, and for some time to come, I avoid unnecessar trips or meetings with people outside my usual routine. Except for Friday nights and the evenings before holidays, I sleep, and listen to music before going to bed, in my apartment. One family at the Yeshiva has a spare bed in the living and dining room which I can use when not sleeping at the apartment. I use one specidic taxi driver every weekday morning for the ride to the Yeshiva, but now am returning to the aparment on weekday evenings by public tanspotation, the Arab sector 255 or 275 to Demascus Gate, the light rail, which is the fun part, to Ammunition Hill, and the Egged 34 or 52 to the stop right behind my apartment. Uusully, there are only three or four other passnegers in the buses involved, and the light rail is not crowded with some "social distancing" possible, and I'm carelull. Nearly all passeners on all public transit are properly masked. So are most drivers, although the light-rail operators are entirely isolated with a glass partition and door, and some do not. Exceptions on the return are when I am carrying back my cleaned laundry, which is done at the Yeshiva, and then usually an Arab taxi company near the Yeshiva provides a cab right away after evening prayers.
Most of the single youngsters have returned, although some have not.
Within the Yeshiva, mask wearing is not compulseray at the present time. I tend to do whatever the specific teacher is doing. If he wears a mask, then I also do during his class. The same is true for the leader in a prayer service. In all these cases, space permits social distancing, with the youngsters in entirely searate classes and prayers. My work desk, where I am typing, is now on a veranda outside the building, with a black cloth sunscreen overhead, and spaced tables for others, and I also eat meals at the same location, except when I'm with a family honoring an invitation, including nearly all breakfasts and all Sabbath meals. On the veranda I currently do not wear a mask. But on the street or anywhere else outside the Yeshiva and my apartment I wear a mask.
To visit my bank, I must phone in advance and make an appointment. I must give them my account number or Israeli I. D., show up on time, and then, after checking my I. D, and possibly looking at their message in my cellphone, I'll be admitted, with only two patrons at a time inside.
Use of the bus and light rail is by normal show-up and board, but use of Israel Railways requires advance regisstration at the present moment, and I have not used it since the outbreak. For at least one month no passenger service was provided. The light rail was out about a week, and the buses a few days. Except for the Arab sector buses and most taxis, transportation is cashless. Plastic only.
Nobody connected with our Yeshiva has come down with the virus.
CMStPnPI'm pretty sure it was only the state or government run homes in the United States that had the issues with virus killing off swaths of people. There might have been one or two private homes as well but typically they are so fearful of lawsuits it would surprise me if there was a lot of them.
Report of a friend retaining anonomity:
I rode Metro-North to Grand Central a week ago and did some photography around Moodna viaduct the following day so will entertain you with a report.
I had an afternoon City appointment on Bastille Day, Tuesday July 14th. Metro-North is running on an augmented Saturday schedule that one must access on their website. A new timetable with a few more trains became effective on July 13th. Train #8828 would leave Croton-Harmon at 11:49 and reach GCT at 12:49, a rather slow schedule as it only made intermediate stops at Ossining and Tarrytown. But it would be much faster than the following train, the 11:56 all stops local so I elected to take it.
At the station the 11:56 local was ready to go but my train had not yet arrived from Poughkeepsie. It finally pulled in about 11:56 and I boarded the 3rd head car which had about 25 other passengers spread out. The consist was 7 Bombardier coaches pushed by a P32 Genesis locomotive; all 7 cars were open to give everyone plenty of room. The trip was fast and uneventful and we reached GCT only a few minutes late.
My previoius visit to GCT had been nearly 2 months earlier. This time there were more people in the Terminal but far less than in normal times. The benches in the ticketed waiting area are roped off and all seating in other parts of the building is blocked off one way or another. Some of the Lower Level Food Court establishments were open so high tables have been set up to enable patrons to eat while standing. They seemed very clean and I used one of them to review some papers. There were no timetables in the racks at the information booths. The Stationmaster’s area had racks full of them but all were the issue that expired on March 28 except for the West of Hudson services which had the current December 8, 2019 issue. There was a March 29th issue printed that never took effect but hopefully it will reappear when full service is restored. Wood partitions are blocking off some parts of the Terminal, including the area by the closed Transit Museum store, for construction work in connection with the LIRR East Side Access project.
Returning, I opted for Train #8839 departing GCT at 2:45 PM, a semi-express to Poughkeepsie. The ride was uneventful with an on time departure and 3:39 arrival at Croton-Harmon. The consist was 7 Bomb coaches pulled by a “New Haven” Genesis locomotive. About 30 people were in the 3rd head car besides me. Ten more entered the car at Tarrytown.
Everyone I saw was wearing a mask as were nearly all the people walking on the streets. All I can add is that both trains and Grand Central itself appeared to very clean.
The following day, July 15th, was clear and not too hot so my wife and I made a last minute decision to drive to the Moodna Viaduct area to photograph the Metro-North Port Jervis Line evening peak hour trains. We set off with a less-detailed map along with some printouts from Google.
Woodbury Viaduct was the first stop. I knew eastbound Train #66 from Middletown would be coming but thought we had missed it. Well, just as I parked the car it came along. No big problem though as it would meet westbound #49 at the Central Valley siding and the westbound was my real objective. That came along with a Metro-North engine and consist of MN Alstom coaches.
The drive onward to Moodna Viaduct was a little challenging but we got there OK. To my disappointment, however, the dirt road from the county road up a hill to a good photo location was barricaded with “NO TRESPASSING” signs all over posted by the MTA Police. I didn’t know that the lower part of that road was on RR property but suppose it is. So we headed a short distance south to a trailhead parking area from which I could photograph trains on the viaduct with Suzanne’s more powerful telephoto lens. Photos were obtained of the eastbound deadhead move from #49 that terminates at Middletown as well as westbound trains 51 and 53.
Next we drove further west to the Campbell Hall station where we could photograph some Middletown & New Jersey Ry equipment in the yard and westbound passenger train #55. That was a very long train from which only 4 passengers emerged. The station parking lot has a capacity of perhaps 100 cars but held only 8 during our visit. For those interested, this station is at the location where the Erie’s Pine Island Branch (also used by L&NE RR trains) used to cross the Graham Line at grade. The access road into the MN station was built on the former r-of-w of the Pine Island Branch. The present MN stations at Harriman, Salisbury Mills, Campbell Hall and Middletown were built in 1982 when the MTA-supported Conrail Port Jervis Line trains were moved from the former Erie RR Main Line thru downtown Goshen & Middletown to the low grade Graham Line originally constructed for freight service. Metro-North now leases the line from Suffern to Port Jervis from Norfolk Southern and has the privilege of maintaining it including the two viaducts and the Otisville Tunnel.
Since we didn’t know of any open outdoor restaurants in the area we returned home via Goshen to Route 17, thence Route 6 thru the Harriman State Park, Bear Mountain Bridge. I look forward to riding a train to Port Jervis and back when the COVID-19 situation improves.
July 21, 2020
For a long time I have reported that nobody connected with my yeshiva has been ill with the virus. But I asked one of the married students why anther married student has been absent from prayer and classes. The answer is that a chiid has been in a group where one other child was tested positive, and for that reason that child and the parents are now in two-week quarentine, even though none test positive or show sysmtms.
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