A notyh bound (2) train at 110th Street. There were smaller fires at 86th Street and 96th Street after this train had left there. Some reporters are tossing the word Arson around, but I do not think so.
16 more injured one very serious. The Conductor did a good job to evacuate the train.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Cannot imagine the casulties if the train had a regular crush number in the car instead of corona -19 load ?
Didn't hear anything about it on the national evening news.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
(CBSNewYork) – Fire marshals are questioning a person of interest following a deadly subway fire early this morning in Harlem, police sources tell CBS2. Investigators are still working to determine whether the blaze was intentionally set.
A 36-year-old motorman died of apparent smoke inhalation, and several other people had to be hospitalized.
Flames broke out shortly after 3 a.m. in the second car of a northbound 2 train near the 110th Street and Central Park North station.
The conductor reported seeing smoke and fire on the train. Two NYCT employees evacuated the passengers, and the fire department was called.
York1 John
According to an article in the local paper this morning it was arson, but I'll be checking the NYC area papers on line ASAP.
Welcome back Brother Lion! I wish the circumstances were better.
Well I don't know what to say or think. I looked at the NYC area on-line papers and 24 hours later it's like it never happened, it's "All coronavirus, all the time!"
As if other things aren't happening. What a pack of worthless lemmings many of todays journalists are, pure herd mentality. What must that motorman's family think? He's nothing but old news now?
Anyway, I found this:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/28/new-york-subway-fire-harlem
What a horror.
Watch this be some deranged individual's credulous attempt to 'sanitize' some of that stainless-steel that's so responsible for spreading the lethality...
Can someone explain how a car with so little combustible content, specifically designed so its wiring and insulation won't sustain, let alone support combustion, winds up with so much damage as we see in the pictures? And how, if the train was supposedly stopped in the 110th St. station, the motorman (who should be recognized as a true hero in this) wound up 'on the tracks' asphyxiated?
More to this than deserves to be swept under the rug by more knotheaded sensationalism by 'all apparently concerned' up there. 'Tain't the Manhattan I was born in...
Overmod Watch this be some deranged individual's credulous attempt to 'sanitize' some of that stainless-steel that's so responsible for spreading the lethality... Can someone explain how a car with so little combustible content, specifically designed so its wiring and insulation won't sustain, let alone support combustion, winds up with so much damage as we see in the pictures? And how, if the train was supposedly stopped in the 110th St. station, the motorman (who should be recognized as a true hero in this) wound up 'on the tracks' asphyxiated? More to this than deserves to be swept under the rug by more knotheaded sensationalism by 'all apparently concerned' up there. 'Tain't the Manhattan I was born in...
I'm not familiar with NYC subway equipment, so let me ask a few questions from an outsider's point of view.
The car's shell and frame appear to be stainless steel, but what sort of insulation and interior panelling do they have?
What are the seats made of?
Is the interior of the car painted?
If they are made of plastic or composites, the combustion of such materials would generate more than enough toxic smoke to asphyxiate people inside, especially the Motorman in his small, enclosed cab.
I wonder if the surrounding damage to the station roof occurred during a outburst of flammable gases suddenly igniting and spreading when they obtained sufficient air and/or heat, as was seen in the 1987 King's Cross escalator fire.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
SD70DudeI'm not familiar with NYC subway equipment, so let me ask a few questions from an outsider's point of view.
Recall the supposed Fox News story a couple of days ago, that the stainless-steel interior panels and other hard surfaces were causing an accelerated rate of effective contact transfer.
I will wait for someone with more distinctive competence in the detail design of that series of car to answer the more obvious questions. I'd doubt there would be enough 'painted surface' for the paint film to support combustion like a modern version of the lemon oil on shipboard; in fact, I'd think great care would be made to make the paint not only reasonably 'fireproof' but resistant to producing TIH when heated. Not sure if this would, or could, extend to behavior in the presence of accelerants.
Seats as far as I know are still resin overmolded on some kind of laminate, again almost certainly with some kind of fire-retardant additive(s). And designed so that radiant heat transfer wouldn't cause prompt outgassing, let alone enough volatile material to sustain a flame or plume.
Wires and thermal insulation batts are things I'm looking at being a problem here, judging by the substantial ceiling burnout visible in a couple of the pictures.
The motorman did not die in his cab; he's responsible for shepherding some of the passengers off the train. Oddly to me, his body was supposed to have been recovered from 'the tracks' -- no explanation of how he could have gotten, or even fallen, there if the train were in the 110th St. station as reported. I could hazard a guess that the train was actually a few cars 'out of' the station, he helped the passengers out that he could; he returned to try to move the fire 'out of the station' by moving the train, and was trapped at the forward end of the train by gas and heat which might have 'flashed' when he opened the forward door to try to get out of the train.
It is hard for me to think of an accelerant that could be smuggled into a train that could vaporize slowly, but effectively enough to produce that plume damage without killing large numbers of passengers fairly quickly. So we have to wait for more, and better, information, I think.
Perhaps the accelerant (if the shopping cart arson theory is indeed true) created a raging fire that the overcame the flame retardent properties of the other interior materials.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/flame-retardants-may-create-deadlier-fires/
Where were the fire suparession systems?
As far as I know, there are no fire surpression systems on NYC subway cars, and there never has been.
I mean, who could forsee a situation where some maniac with a shopping cart full of containers of gasolene, kerosene, naptha, or other inflammables would shove the whole flaming mess into a subway car?
And even then, I doubt a standard fire supression system could deal with it.
"a situation where some maniac with a shopping cart full of containers of gasolene, kerosene, naptha, or other inflammables would shove the whole flaming mess into a subway car? "-
No I was thinking a eletrcical fire or someone with too much perfume and too much ethonal in their system would spotanisly combust when they lit a cigarette. I dont know
Now watch the media fall all over themselves to describe exactly how it was done, how there's no effective defense against it, even what materials are easiest to get into position for the 'assault'. Then start apologizing for the culprit, if he belongs to certain preferred groups, or demonized beyond explanation if he belongs to conveniently disparaged others.
While Fire looks on and laughs ... probably laughs, and laughs, and laughs again, before the novelty wears down.
It's like a non-funny version of the Batman episode where the Penguin bugged the Batcave, then announced he was planning to commit some impossible crime or other. The Dynamic Duo would accomplish their typical trope feat of reasoning exactly how it was possible ... at which point the meanies, having taken notes, would go and do exactly that before the Batlight could be lit in response. It does have to be said that Schwartzkopf played the media like a harp from hell understanding precisely how to turn that kind of cleverness on its head, but that was an all-too-regrettable, and when you look at it rationally likely a career-ending, move in today's politically-expedient politically-correct world.
I will tell you this much: I've certainly lost any residual desire to help COVID-19 along by riding certain subway lines.
Mod-man, you're assuming the media's even paying attention to that subway fire anymore. As I posted earlier within 24 hours it seemed to be old news. By the time the investigation's over and the results published I'll be surprised if we hear anything about it. Maybe a one or two paragraph spread in the "Daily News" or the "New York Post" if they're not distracted by some celebrity shenanigans.
I do so hope I'm wrong.
Oh yeah, General Schwartzkopf played the press like a harp all right. A career-ending move? I doubt it, ol' "Stormin' Norman" had his four stars and he'd gone as far as he cared to. His fame and reputation are quite secure. Any military man could do a lot worse than have Norman Schwartzkopf's career.
I stand (a bit) corrected. If you go to York1's post and click on the word "Harlem" highlighted in blue you'll get some updates. At least someone gives a damn.
Anyone see and remember this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRnjswr1swo
Oh yes! Great movie. Set in Chicago.
Short update, the subway station where the fire took place re-opened Monday.
Still no arrests, the investigation is on-going.
Flintlock76 Mod-man, you're assuming the media's even paying attention to that subway fire anymore. As I posted earlier within 24 hours it seemed to be old news. By the time the investigation's over and the results published I'll be surprised if we hear anything about it. Maybe a one or two paragraph spread in the "Daily News" or the "New York Post" if they're not distracted by some celebrity shenanigans.
As long as employees are the only deaths - fatal incidents lose relavence to the media very quickly. Many articles written about rail accidents prior to the World Wars diminished emplyee deaths to the point of insignificance, just mentioned in passing if at all.
Recall seeing a Railway Age '100 years ago' clip mentioning that the prior year employeed fatalities in the railroad industry had been reduced to slightly more than 1K individuals, and bragged on themselves about the accomplishment.
True Balt, sadly all too true.
My daughter who lived in NYC for 7 years told me that New Yorkers are resigned to the fact that there are a lot of crazies living in the city so it takes a lot to keep their attention for more than one news day. She moved away 5 years ago but still visits friends there 2 or 3 times a year. [She also believes the city has rapidly going down hill since she left. Dirtier, more graffiti, and more people scared of crime.]
alphas My daughter who lived in NYC for 7 years told me that New Yorkers are resigned to the fact that there are a lot of crazies living in the city so it takes a lot to keep their attention for more than one news day. She moved away 5 years ago but still visits friends there 2 or 3 times a year. [She also believes the city has rapidly going down hill since she left. Dirtier, more graffiti, and more people scared of crime.]
Oh, from what I've been hearing it's been backsliding alright. We could discuss the various reasons, but they don't belong in a "Transit" thread, so we'd best not go there. Those who follow events in that part of the country pretty much know why anyway.
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