The Other UP

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The Other UP
Posted by Miningman on Friday, November 1, 2019 6:39 PM


Union Pearson Express

Union Pearson Express is a division of Metrolinx an Ontario provincial entity that also operates GO Transit trains and buses. UP Express operates a passenger train service between Toronto Union Station and Toronto Pearson International Airport a.k.a. Toronto Pearson Airport or YYZ in air language! 

First talked about decades ago studies were done in 1989, 1990 and 1991 to no avail. Another decade went by and in April 2001 Transport Canada responsible for airports proposed such a service. SNC-Lavalin subsidiary Union Pearson AirLink Group was finally selected. They put forth Blue22 based upon a 22 minute travel time with one stop en route at Bloor GO station to connect with a TTC Subway line. This name soon died when YIMBY's (Yes In My Back Yard) intervened demanding a station in Weston! They got it! It was to operate using refurbished RDC's "Budd Cars". It didn't get off the ground and in June 2008 a PPP (Private_Public_Partnerhip) was put forward. It too failed to result in anything happening. 

Metrolinx took over the project in July 2010 creating Union Pearson Express a.k.a. UP Express as a division of GO Transit. The project required a major expansion and upgrade of the GO (ex CN) Georgetown line for 14 miles between Bathurst Street and Malton adding two more tracks to the already two-track mainline. It also required adding bridges and new signals matching those on the Lakeshore Line that permitted high frequency operation. Some three dozen signal indications (adding all those flashing lights) rather than the more common half dozen used everywhere else. It also required a 2.1 mile elevated spur off the Georgetown line into the airport itself at a cost of nearly $130 Million. Projected total cost of over $450 Million. Construction finally began in 2011! 

Although electrification had been a hoped-for goal it was simply too expensive for the ridership anticipated even considering the existing GO ridership beyond UPX end points. Only the Lakeshore Lines have anywhere near the required ridership to warrant the expense of electrification. Instead, new technology produced a diesel engine that met US EPA Tier 4 requirements for the first time anywhere! Toronto was a leader! Imagine that! Quiet and pollution reduction combined to match electrification for "Green" qualities at a fraction of the cost as well as time saving for start-up. 

Nippon Sharyo produced DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) cars manufactured in Japan and assembled in USA (Rochelle, Illinois) for SMART (Sonoma-Marin Area Rapid Transit) in the San Francisco Bay Area of California. Around the same time they also produced (in Rochelle), similar DMU's for UP Express although with more elegant interiors with overhead storage and larger luggage space as well. UPX began running (June 6, 2015) two years before SMART did so in August 2017. 

Initially, (March 2011) UP Express ordered 12 cars but later increased it to 18 with a C type car for center use between pairs of cab cars operating with a maximum of three cars. The C cars do have a cab but not a streamlined nose. They also have a washroom something the others do not! Cost was $75 Million US. Grand total cost of UPX was $456 Million! 

Train waiting to depart Union Station. Rear view. July 10, 2018 Rev. Edward Brain, D.D.


Union Station was a challenge in that track space was at a premium. Luckily, they were able to alter the west end of Track 1 shortening it and realigning it connecting into Track 2 and creating a short dead-end track able to hold just one 3 car train-set. A modern station was constructed, self-contained and enclosed with a high platform accessible via the enclosed SkyWalk giving access to/from the main Union Station for VIA, GO plus TTC all enclosed as well as the lengthy (over 18 miles) PATH underground pedestrian way. 

Trains operate every 15 minutes all-day seven days a week from 5.30 AM to 1 AM totalling 156 trips a day. Initially, train started later, in time for first flights. However, they "forgot" about the 7,000 airport workers! They had to arrive earlier! 

Anticipated ridership failed miserably! At 2,100 per day it didn't even reach 7,000 needed to cover operating expenses! This was due to the very high fares being charged. Finally, nine months later a huge fare reduction (55%, from $27.50 down to $12.00) started to boost ridership. By July 2017 it was 10,000 per day still far from what was originally predicted. 

 

 


Gallery

UPX 1007 leads three car consist at Union. 

UPX 1008 exiting flyunder heading westward towards GO Weston Subdivison. 
Four trains layover mid-day at GO North Bathurst Street Yard. 
Tuesday, September 1, 2015. 

Meet between two trains. Historic site of Cabin D. Westbound (right) and Eastbound which
could not enter until train departed from Union Station. Second day of operation Sunday, June 7, 2015. 

Note new tracks incomplete underneath new Strachan Avenue underpass. 
Newly constructed high rises in background now known as Liberty Village 
blanket former CPR Parkdale Yard and adjacent industries long gone. 

 

 

 

 

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Posted by 54light15 on Saturday, November 2, 2019 11:01 AM

When returing to Toronto at Pearson, I used to take a town car home for $50.00. Now, I take the UPX to Dundas West for $2.50 and then the King streetcar to home on Roncesvalles avenue. A lot less money and a whole lot less time. It's a nice service and ridership is high since the fares were lowered. 

The line going into the terminal at Pearson has the concrete bases for catenary but the latest thing is discussing running conventional GO trains on that line which means a total reconfiguring of the tracks at Pearson. If regular GO trains are used they will arrive and depart from the straight-through tracks at Union Station. 

The trains are very quiet and there are noise barriers along the line on Dundas Street West, north of Bloor street but these, naturally are covered in graffiti. 

You can use the Presto card to pay but it is half the price if you pay with a debit card. There used to be an "in-flight" magazine in the seat pocket in front of you but that's gone. One thing that is under discussion is to have a direct entrance to the subway as the Dundas West stations platforms east end are directly under the UPX/GO station which I think would increase ridership but I have no idea when or if that will happen. 

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, November 2, 2019 11:38 AM

Thanks for that 54light15. I haven't been back to the Roncesvalles 'hood or the bottom of Queen or the Parkdale area since the early '80's so I would imagine the changes are quite significant. 

There was a radio personality, a stock analyst ( no longer on the air) who just hammered the UPE every day.. I listened to the show twice a day via live streaming. Thinking he did significant damage to the ridership but perhaps was instrumental in the decision to lower the fares substantially. Quite amusing to listen to.

Is there still a large Polish presence in Roncesvalles or has that disappeared now and been replaced by newer immigrants?  

The shops and restaurants were quite unique.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Saturday, November 2, 2019 6:47 PM

Okay, Miningman, after reading your fine report on The Other UP and having a couple of Molsons, I came up with this little ditty to the tune of Great Big Rollin' Railroad.

 

(I have some extra letters in there at some spots so you know how to make the syllables work with the tune.)

Union Pearson

There's a nifty little railroad, that everybody knows

It runs betw-e-en the airport, and downtown To-ron-to

As you pass highway congestion, you'll be zippin' 'long just fine

It's the U-u-union Pearson, and you're gonna be on time!

 

 

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, November 2, 2019 7:13 PM

kgbw49--  Oh wow! Terrific. May bacon, maple syrup and Molsons be up you in adundance. .... and Poutine, on demand anytime anywhere.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, November 2, 2019 8:40 PM

Miningman
Poutine, on demand anytime anywhere.

The perfect side for my daily croque-monsieur!

Ça va faire une maudite... well, you know.  (Isn't that what they said when starting work on the Union-Pearson?)

This has me thinking ... you know, Tim Horton's technically owns Burger King, right?  And BK has access to beaucoodles of fries, right?  A little brown gravy would go nice with some of them ... a word from corporate, perhaps?

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, November 2, 2019 8:59 PM

Perhaps in the future it will be a reality... poof, poutine! 

I'm sure there was a few "tabernac and a half" thrown around although in Toronto I suspect the construction workers and foreman were Italians.. they get it done and done right! 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, November 2, 2019 9:07 PM

Miningman

Perhaps in the future it will be a reality... poof, poutine! 

I'm sure there was a few "tabernac and a half" thrown around although in Toronto I suspect the construction workers and foreman were Italians.. they get it done and done right! 

 

Roman heritage baby, it's in the blood!

By the way, I hope the other UP down in Omaha doesn't give the Union Pearson any grief over unauthorized trademark use.  There was a helluva flap over that when the Union Pacific put the squeeze on railroad model companys over that.  It was eventually resolved, but it was ugly while it lasted.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, November 2, 2019 9:16 PM

Taber-r-r-nacolo dei tabernacoli!

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Posted by SD70Dude on Saturday, November 2, 2019 10:52 PM

Burger King sells poutine now.  Maybe it's only available in Canada.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, November 2, 2019 11:39 PM

SD70Dude
Burger King sells poutine now.  Maybe it's only available in Canada.

I haven't seen it in any domestic BK yet, and that includes Erie, PA which is relatively close to the border.  I'm planning on going up to check the Falls, and I now have an additional 'reason'...

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, November 2, 2019 11:47 PM

ALL of them have Poutine-- Wendy's, McDonalds, Burger King, Tim Hortons, A&W, Dairy Queen ... even KFC but it's Poutine Popcorn Chicken whatever the blazes that is :

Here is a Wendy's review-- " Building on its iconic fries, cut from whole potatoes, cooked skin-on, served hot and crispy with a sprinkle of sea salt, Wendy's poutine adds fresh Canadian cheese curds (a poutine must!) and is covered in the brand's rich poutine sauce.Apr 25, 2012

Apparently fresh cheese curds are illegal

in the US.. it must be aged 60 days then voila

its legal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcvoOT4N1xM

 There are video reviews for all of them .. I'm sure if you watch this one the others will pop up along the right hand side

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, November 2, 2019 11:58 PM

Miningman
... "Building on its iconic fries, cut from whole potatoes, cooked skin-on, served hot and crispy with a sprinkle of sea salt, Wendy's poutine adds fresh Canadian cheese curds (a poutine must!) and is covered in the brand's rich poutine sauce.

Damn you, you sadistic bastids.

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, November 3, 2019 12:11 AM

Don't get him started on Kinder Surprise. If caught entering the USA with even one it's really bad .. really bad!

Delicious Chocolate and very very kool toys inside.

They will tear your car apart, throw your kids in the slammer, it's just awful.

My favourite columnist Mark Steyn crossed the border from Quebec into Vermont and his kids had one each in hand. All friggin hell broke loose!

Probably ok on the Southern border though.  

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, November 3, 2019 6:05 AM

Now I know there's something wrong.  First 4935 in Tuscan and now this.

I distinctly remember seeing Kinder Surprise for sale numerous times, in places like Walmart even.  Perhaps there is some version made specially for the United States, but this is the first time I've read about a ban on the things; I haven't looked carefully at the history but it's certainly interesting reading.

Kinder Surprise is kind of like the FAO Schwartz of candy, the same way that those Rocher truffle things in the foil are waaaaaay too expensive for what you get until you get them on Manager's Special.  Perhaps the idea was to make them so expensive that only rich, caring parents who carefully supervise the 'experience' could get them.  

One thing this suggested to me is that it helps explain something that even today I remember as defining one of the ends to my childhood: the ruining of the toys in Cracker Jack.  There used to be cool stuff in those little boxes, the high point being a green locomotive that you had to snap together -- there were other train cars that went with it; I had the caboose and I think a tank car -- which was actually well-proportioned.  And then, one day, what we got was some little paper thing.  Thereafter that was the only thing.  Not worth picking the unpopped kernel pieces out of your teeth for those.

Only now, in the hindsight of enlightenment, do I see that this could be a response to the kind of law supposedly used to justify confiscating those eggs: far less likelihood of inhaling Oh My Goodness SNAKE micro-stationery 'by accident' than some plastic tchotchke, and perhaps less likelihood it would pass down a tiny windpipe even then.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Sunday, November 3, 2019 8:12 AM

Flintlock76, if GO Transit was ever of a mind to use something like this for a radio commercial or such, of course they would have to approach Union Pacific about rights to use the tune.

However, I think a jingle radio campaign and a serving of poutine for each rider would fill up the trains!

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, November 3, 2019 8:49 AM

Hmmm, poutine.  I have to confess I needed to look that one up.

Looks pretty good!  I'd try it. (Hey, I tried and loved  codfish tongues when I was in Newfoundland!) Although I doubt Burger King's likely to poutine here in the US anytime soon.  Maybe up close to the US/Canadian border if market research shows it might be a good seller.

The thing is, any good American diner worthy of the name will put brown gravy (usually turkey) on your fries if you ask for it.  The cheese curds?  Not likely.

Still waiting for a Timmy's here in the Richmond area.  I suppose I'm in for a long wait.  Probably a longer wait than Abe Lincoln had waiting for the Union Army to take the place.

Crackerjack prizes?  They stopped being worth a damn decades ago. 

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, November 3, 2019 8:58 AM

Flintlock76
The cheese curds?  Not likely.

We need a better marketing name.  I actually found 'cheese curds' as a product for sale in my local supermarket in Erie yesterday, so they're an 'item of commerce' in this part of the United States, and presumably available to restaurants to serve... it's just that nobody wants something with a name and appearance so close to 'turds'.

Back in the '80s I was involved in a startup aquaculture operation that raised mussels (Mytilus edulis).  Lots and lots of mussels, and many of them had their shells broken in processing, so it was actually cheaper to process them for meat than to dispose of them safely.  When I got there, they were making extremely tasty breaded 'nuggets' largely out of this better-than-free meat ... but calling them by the extremely unattractive name "mussel nuggets".  Would you buy such a thing to try in a Burger King?  This was particularly unfortunate because once you'd actually put one of the things in your mouth you'd be a repeat customer immediately.

The 'curds' are very similar to the product known as string cheese, which is itself not a very attractive sounding thing if you haven't tasted it.  We need something better to tout as an essential ingredient.

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Posted by 54light15 on Sunday, November 3, 2019 9:23 AM

Poutine? No thanks, never had it. Looks like a plate of barf to me. As I understand it, it was what you ate in Quebec after playing hockey in -40 degree weather. I'll pass. It's really not as common as you jokers seem to make it out to be, but having said (written?) that, there are restaurants that only sell poutine. Look up Smoke's Poutine, there's a bunch of them around. 

Roncesvalles avenue is still Polish somewhat but nowhere to the extent it was 25 years ago- there are only two Polish restaurants left and two Polish delis. The Polish places have mostly been replaced by stores that sell high-end baby carriages, Beautiful Things For The Home and places where women go to get manicured and waxed- there are only 6 of those places on the street. Oh, and there are 4 Thai restaurants. And 5 coffee shops, only one of which is Tim Horton's selling their watery swill. 

Every September there is a Polish festival that takes up the entire street, North America's biggest celebration of Polish culture. People come in from the suburbs and do whatever it is you do at a street festival. I have buskers right outside my door playing the pan flute and I only hear them play that Simon and Garfunkel song that goes "I'd rather be a hammer than a nail" abut 20 times a day. It's a good time to get the hell out of town! 

Kinder Surprises are illegal in the States? Odd, they're sold everywhere around here- every corner store has them and yeah, I sure remember when Cracker Jack had decent prizes- I stopped buying it when there was only TWO peanuts in the whole box! 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, November 3, 2019 9:27 AM

Mussel nuggets?  Man, I'd try those in a heartbeat, especially if they had a marinara "dippin' sauce" to go with 'em!  

I can get mussels with marinara at my local Italian restaurant (The owner's from Brooklyn) but unfortunately not in the big pot quantity I used to get in New Jersey.  Hey, at least they're available!

Mussels are great!  Shows you the benefits of going fishing at low tide!  Whistling

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, November 3, 2019 9:47 AM

54light15
And 5 coffee shops, only one of which is Tim Horton's selling their watery swill. 

Horton's is no more a 'coffee shop' than Dunkin Donuts is.  It's a donut shop that happens to serve watery swill on the side.

Of course, I think Starbucks isn't really a 'coffee shop' either, unless you think burning rather than roasting the beans is part of making coffee.  But that's another story.

Brown gravy on French fries is a regional specialty in a number of places in the 'States.  And it's really good -- albeit a little messy.  The cheese if you get it is commonly melted over the top, not laid on in curds; it takes a little getting used to, but so does eating fries with the ketchup sprinkled over the top, or having your hash browns scattered, smothered and covered.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, November 3, 2019 9:54 AM

Flintlock76
Mussel nuggets?  Man, I'd try those in a heartbeat, especially if they had a marinara "dippin' sauce" to go with 'em!  

One of the great comic moments in New England commerce concerned the economics behind these nuggets.  As I think I mentioned, we set up early and cordial relations with a certain organization that says it is not the Cosa Nostra to be sure our products would find the proper sort of willing distribution.  If you are familiar with the Massachusetts equivalent of the Jersey Shore you may be familiar with 'clam fritters', which are made of a few pieces of clam and some clam juice with a great deal of breading, and of course are supplied by one of the 'family' enterprises.  We determined that we could easily make these with superior mussel meat ... in fact, the major cost was the breading, so to make them full of tasty nourishing meat actually cost less than making the pathetic clam equivalent.  The test batch was something to experience; it put most crab cakes to shame, and a very small additional investment in spices and sherry made it something you could serve in far more places than a tourist shack.

Alas! there were internecine conflicts that kept this from happening.  But imagine the fun if a whole class of junk food suddenly became nourishing at a lower food cost!

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, November 3, 2019 12:45 PM

Re Kinder Surprise Chocolate Eggs and the USA

The Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act prohibits confectionery products which contain a “non-nutritive object”, unless the non-nutritive object has functional value.[40]Essentially, the Act bans "the sale of any candy that has embedded in it a toy or trinket".[41]

In 1997, the staff of the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) examined and issued a recall for some Kinder Surprise illegally brought into the US with foreign labels.[42] The staff determined that the toys within the eggs had small parts. The staff presumed that Kinder Surprise, being a chocolate product, was intended for children of all ages, including those under three years of age. On this basis, the staff took the position that Kinder Surprise was in violation of the small parts regulation and should be banned from importation into the US.[42]

Kinder Surprise eggs are legal in Canada and Mexico, but are illegal to import into the US. In January 2011, the US Customs and Border Protection (CBP) threatened a Manitoba resident with a 300 Canadian dollar fine for carrying one egg across the US border into Minnesota.[43] In June 2012, CBP held two Seattle men for two and a half hours after discovering six Kinder Surprise eggs in their car upon returning to the US from a trip to Vancouver. According to one of the men detained, Joseph Cummings of Seattle, WA, a border guard quoted the potential fine as "$2,500 per egg."[44]

In 2012, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) re-issued their import alert stating “The embedded non-nutritive objects in these confectionery products may pose a public health risk as the consumer may unknowingly choke on the object”.[45]

Kinder Surprise bears warnings advising the consumer that the toy is "not suitable for children under three years, due to the presence of small parts", and that "adult supervision is recommended".[46]

As of 2017 Kinder Joy eggs, a variant lacking the encased toy, are sold in the United States, although Kinder Surprise eggs remain banned.

As for Cheese Curds:

Are cheese curds illegal in US?
While raw cheese is illegal in the U.S., if it is aged for 60 days or more, killing the bacteria, it is suddenly legal. ... (Poutine fans -- it's the real deal if it's made from fresh cheese curds, which are illegal here.Aug 17, 2010
thestir.cafemom.com › food_party

 So Overmod what you likely saw was the variant Kinder Joy.

Flintlock-- Never had Poutine? Are you kidding me, I just can't imagine that ..here's the best gravy for Poutine.

Note latest Trains magazine in background just arrived via Dogsled... err, Canada Post and numerous Pisachio shell bits all around the 'puter because I eat 'em while reading and posting! 

Annnd.. 54light15-- thank you for the response, glad to hear something's left and the festival is still alive. I suppose you can hop on a streetcar or take the UP and get outta Dodge for the duration! ( just to add some Railroading and bring it back to the the other UP)

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, November 3, 2019 2:12 PM

Now I see what happens when you get too many nitwit literalist thirtysomethings in a regulatory agency.

The 1938 regulation clearly bans toys EMBEDDED in food, where a child might likely be gobbling and inadvertently swallow the toy.  (That 'functional purpose' embedding covers lollipop sticks, the plastic in ring pops, and the like.)

I can see how this applies to King Cakes, and much as I hate to see tradition go by the wayside there is certainly this risk present for them or other issues like it. 

The 'original' Kinder Surprise (as I recall) had the prize entirely separate inside the hollow chocolate eggshell, but only technically 'embedded' in it... you might as well say there was CO2 "embedded" in a hollow chocolate Easter bunny because of the trapped air.  On the other hand, though -- there are supposed to be at least two registered deaths from Kinder Surprise, so why would an agency that banned cyclamates on goofy evidence hesitate to act on that?

The problem is that the company has rather egregiously addressed the problem by providing the moral equivalent of a childproof pill bottle in every egg: there's an inner plastic capsule that kids have to work on to open, and that ought to pass the Federal choke test.  There's video on the Web of children standing on them to try to induce them to open!  Nestle now has a plastic capsule so large that it separates the halves of the 'chocolate ball' (thereby avoiding the complete embedding; clever Swiss legalism at work!) which then has to be solved to get at the 'small parts inside'.  Presumably few children under 3 who are unattended will have the wherewithal to get at the chokables now.

But just as foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds, expect a ban on "Kinder Surprise" to persist beyond any attempts to make it safe or compliant.

 

I have to look into this poutine gravy.  Is there something special in the formula that's different from normal diner-style brown gravy?  I never thought to look!

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, November 3, 2019 2:14 PM

Now I see what happens when you get too many nitwit literalist thirtysomethings in a regulatory agency.

The 1938 regulation clearly bans toys EMBEDDED in food, where a child might likely be gobbling and inadvertently swallow the toy.  (That 'functional purpose' embedding covers lollipop sticks, the plastic in ring pops, and the like.)

I can see how this applies to King Cakes, and much as I hate to see tradition go by the wayside there is certainly this risk present for them or other issues like it. 

The 'original' Kinder Surprise (as I recall) had the prize entirely separate inside the hollow chocolate eggshell, but only technically 'embedded' in it... you might as well say there was CO2 "embedded" in a hollow chocolate Easter bunny because of the trapped air.  On the other hand, though -- there are supposed to be at least two registered deaths from Kinder Surprise, so why would an agency that banned cyclamates on goofy evidence hesitate to act on that?

The problem is that the company has rather egregiously addressed the problem by providing the moral equivalent of a childproof pill bottle in every egg: there's an inner plastic capsule that kids have to work on to open, and that ought to pass the Federal choke test.  There's video on the Web of children standing on them to try to induce them to open!  Nestle now has a plastic capsule so large that it separates the halves of the 'chocolate ball' (thereby avoiding the complete embedding; clever Swiss legalism at work!) which then has to be solved to get at the 'small parts inside'.  Presumably few children under 3 who are unattended will have the wherewithal to get at the chokables now.

But just as foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds, expect a ban on "Kinder Surprise" to persist beyond any attempts to make it safe or compliant.

 

I have to look into this poutine gravy.  Is there something special in the formula that's different from normal diner-style brown gravy?  I never thought to look!

And there are a couple of facilities ... known to me in rural west Tennessee that will provide raw cheese curd made with proper attention to avoiding contamination.  Got raw milk from them for a while before I gave up cow's milk except for cooking or as processed.  It's there if you look but don't tell.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, November 3, 2019 2:28 PM

"St. Hubert Poutine Gravy."  Nope, don't have none of that down here neither.  I'm out of luck all 'round.

The closest I can get to St. Hubert is Ginger, our attack Basset.  The real  Saint Hubert is the patron saint of Basset Hounds, and hounds in general.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, November 3, 2019 2:38 PM

Worse still, they taunt us with a Web site.  I did not know until now that they're a restaurant chain.

http://www.st-hubert.com/menu/Poutines/poutine-st-hubert.en.html

and there is an online damn menu.  Wanna bet they won't deliver to me? ...

Strangely, they refer in the recipe to 'barbecue' sauce.  And rib sauce.  Those aren't two things that come to mind when I think about poutine.  But now that you mention them, my mouth is watering...

 

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, November 3, 2019 4:04 PM

Here's the rest of the story. 

The spuds can be home grown as they are in the photo or store bought.. I prefer the Cavendish to the other brands. Left the price sticker on.. sorry 'bout dat! Robertsons Trading still uses price stickers and no scanning whatsoever at the store. Also like a little bit of malt vinegar. 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, November 3, 2019 4:45 PM

Just checked the St-Hubert menu.  Wow.  Stuff looks good!

Not likely they'd deliver to Virginia either.

Oh well, put it on the bucket list.

Say, how did a transit topic get sidetracked into a food discussion?  Who cares?

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, November 3, 2019 5:17 PM

St. Hubert BBQ chicken restaurants are very good and preferred over their big competitor Swiss Chalet, which is also very good. Try either one or both next visit, you won't be disappointed. 

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