Tunnel Talk

959 views
9 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    January, 2019
  • 290 posts
Tunnel Talk
Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, January 11, 2019 12:11 PM

I just read this very interesting column by Paul Mulshine of the Newark Star-Ledger newspaper in New Jersey concerning Hurricane Sandy damaged tunnels and thought I'd pass it along for everyone's enjoyment.  A good read.

https://www.nj.com/opinion/2019/01/andrew-cuomo-shows-phil-murphy-the-light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-mulshine.html 

It's so common-sense it makes me think David Klepper and Overmod must have been involved in the consultation!

  • Member since
    December, 2008
  • From: Toronto, Canada
  • 1,332 posts
Posted by 54light15 on Sunday, January 13, 2019 11:20 AM

I'm glad that the hipsters are happy. Yes, a good, common sense politician. How many of them are there? 

  • Member since
    September, 2003
  • 6,519 posts
Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, January 15, 2019 5:59 AM

Read the Newswire story about the upcoming emergency meeting the MTA is having over this.  It will be interesting to see whether they play hardball or softball with the engineering firms involved, and then how things proceed to the vote on adopting changes to the plan.

Byford is already starting to get the spin cranked up, although it is probably impossible to figure out (yet) which way the official pravda will be oriented.

  • Member since
    September, 2008
  • 1,054 posts
Posted by aegrotatio on Tuesday, January 15, 2019 1:56 PM

I don't think Amtrak wants to run replacement wiring along the top of the tunnel next to the 12.5 Volt catenary.  Up the sides of the tunnels would be better.

Quick question: Why do the PRR tunnels have bench walls on both sides, anyway?  One would be sufficient for evacuation and the other side can be abandoned in-place with the signal, power, and communications lines installed up high on the wall on that side.

  • Member since
    January, 2019
  • 55 posts
Posted by Erik_Mag on Tuesday, January 15, 2019 2:12 PM

IIRC, the PRR put the bench walls in to constrain the cars in case of a derailment. This was from Middleton's book on PRR entry to NYC.

  • Member since
    December, 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 9,111 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, January 15, 2019 3:24 PM

aegrotatio

I don't think Amtrak wants to run replacement wiring along the top of the tunnel next to the 12.5 Volt catenary.  Up the sides of the tunnels would be better. 

Wonder if just one side of bore would be considered enough for evacuation?  A commuter train or the subway "L" bore that has no evacuation options except go to tunnel mouth seems questionable.  1200 passengers 600 each way ??  For that matter even both sides available 500 each way both sides.  Much better but worse case would be one side not useable ? 

Even worse front car or last car fire so all 1200 up one side?

That appears the reason that the new Gateway tunnel bores require a cross connection to other bore every 800 feet of bore?  That requires both new bores certified for operation before any revenue trains can use the bores.

  • Member since
    September, 2008
  • 1,054 posts
Posted by aegrotatio on Tuesday, January 15, 2019 9:27 PM

Seems reasonable to have them on both sides the way you folks are putting it by preventing derailments, but wouldn't a check rail also help prevent derailments at an exponentially lower cost?

I'm also curious how the passengers are protected from the third rail in the L tunnel and that one Amtrak tunnel that has a third rail?

 

  • Member since
    June, 2002
  • 14,433 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, January 16, 2019 5:59 AM

In resonse to Firelock, I was not involved in any of the new looks at the problem.

I had extensive correspondence some 1 - 2  years ago, mostly with NYCTS itself.  Whether or not some fall-out in any way aided continued objections to NYCTA's plans is unkown to me.  I did not take the issue outside the engineering and railfan communities, for exampe to former clients of my acoustical consuling firm in the neighborhoods served by the "L"/ 

Repeating another posting, my former partner Larry King reports a recent marked improvement in subway service.  Faster, fewer delays, and more frequent.

 

  • Member since
    September, 2003
  • 6,519 posts
Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, January 16, 2019 7:19 AM

I received a heads-up from a known good source yesterday that Gothamist was providing a link to the emergency meeting with periodic updates.  Results were interesting.  There are safety arguments, particularly involving silica dust from concrete operations (e.g. drilling for anchors for the cable racks).  A growing bone of contention is whether the engineering firms that 'advised' the MTA when the contracts were let several years ago can now do reasonable evaluation of the academic proposals ... some interesting implications for the meeting on the 24th, I think.

Will provide the link I was given when I have time to look it up (received it on the phone, which is down).

  • Member since
    January, 2019
  • 290 posts
Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, January 16, 2019 9:50 AM

Of course David I was speaking "tongue-in-cheek" when I suggested yours and Overmods involvement in the tunnel fix solutions, but considering your comprehensive knowledge of the various New York City transit systems I honestly believe you know more about it than the people running it!  And that's no joke on my part!

And Overmod, he knows his engineering, and that's no joke either!

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy