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Two Chicago cops dead

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  • Member since
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Two Chicago cops dead
Posted by greyhounds on Tuesday, December 18, 2018 12:55 AM

OK, I don't want to hear anything about this being their own fault.  They were after a guy with a gun in the dark.  That apparently was what they concentrated on.  And then they died.  Two young fathers.  It takes a whole lot of courage to go after a gunman in the dark.  We should admire and respect what they were doing.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-2-struck-metra-electric-20181217-story.html

 

 

 

"By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that.
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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, December 18, 2018 10:31 AM

Sorry greyhounds - they were responsible for their own safety - from the gunman and from the enviornment they were in.  The outcome speaks for itself and it doesn't only happen to police officers, it happens to professional railroaders.  A personal acquaintence was killed on duty a year and a half ago in similar (minus the gun) circumstance having been hit by a passing passenger train operating at track speed.  The railroad right of way is a very unforgiving enviornment and mistakes claim a very high price.

My sincerest sympathies to the families.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by greyhounds on Tuesday, December 18, 2018 10:54 PM

I agree that they were responsible for their own safety.  But I question whether cop training goes in to "Expect movement on any track, at any time, in either direction." a whole lot.

They willingly entered, Hell they ran to, a very dangerous situation to protect the public.  They went after a man shooting a gun in the dark on a busy higher speed rail line.  And they got killed.  They did compromise their own safety.  And they did so willingly.  May they rest in enternal peace for their courage. 

 

"By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that.
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Posted by Firelock76 on Wednesday, December 19, 2018 9:29 AM

I'm going to tread very, very carefully here, so please bear with me.

The loss of those two brave Chicago "combat soldiers,"  and I mean what I say when I call them that because in a very real sense that's what street cops are, is certainly tragic, but there's a lesson here.

Ever hear of a thing called "target fixation?"  That's a term the military uses to describe a mental state soldiers can fall into where they're so engrossed in hitting the target or accomplishing the mission that they lose situational awareness of where they are and what's going on around them.  It's real, and it's deadly.  The most famous victim of it I can think of is Manfred von Richthofen, the "Red Baron" of World War One fame.  He wasn't the first, and he certainly wasn't the last.

So it strikes me that these two officers are the latest victims.  They were so intent on bringing in the bad guy they lost their situational awareness.

It's tragic.  But if their colleages take away the lesson of "target fixation" and learn from it then in a way these two men won't have died in vain.

May they rest in peace!

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, December 19, 2018 12:40 PM

greyhounds
I agree that they were responsible for their own safety.  But I question whether cop training goes in to "Expect movement on any track, at any time, in either direction." a whole lot.

If is doesn't it should - especially in Chicago where there are active lines in every section of the city.  It also needs to be taught that moving trains can be quieter than you could ever imagine with welded rail being the standard these days - no clicking of rail joints to announcing the approach of a train.  In this particular case throw in that the train was electrically powered and even quieter than something diesel powered.

Situational awareness can be too easily defeated and death is the penalty.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by petitnj on Wednesday, December 19, 2018 3:30 PM

The real question is what can be done to convince people that railroad tracks are dangerous? Operation Lifesaver works on this all the time. Your ideas? 

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, December 19, 2018 3:49 PM

petitnj
The real question is what can be done to convince people that railroad tracks are dangerous? Operation Lifesaver works on this all the time. Your ideas? 

In the instant case - OL should be given at least one day for presentations at Police Training facilities, especially in Chicago and the greater Chicago area.  

There is a old story floating around - DEA agent visits a farmer, farmer tells the DEA agent not into a particular field.  DEA agent shows his badge and tells the farmer he can go anywhere he wants to.  The agent goes into the field the farmer warned him about.  Several minutes later the farmers sees the agent sprinting across the field whith his prized bull snorting in hot pursuit.  Agent hollers to the  farmer for help - farmer responds 'Show him your badge'! 

Far too many police officers think their badge protects them in situations they have no business entering.  Thrill of the chase, situational awareness and the indestructability of youth all come into play - and all too frequently the result is sending condolences to the family. 

Policing is a dangerous job in its own right - officers need to be trained not to place themselves into positions of even more danger.

Railroad rights of way are DANGEROUS!  They are dangerous for railroaders and even more dangerous for other than railroaders.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Saturday, December 22, 2018 10:26 PM

The old rule should be taught to the police. Expect a train on ANY track at ANY TIME. It applies to all. And the electic METRA trains have NO diesel loco noise. I always remember back in the late fifties, when I was working on the PRR's Cincinnati to Richmond line looking up the track and seeing a passenger train appear about a mile away and not hearing any sound. Called "HOT RAIL" and gang cleared the track. The fact that there was no sound, since the train hAd throttled back, has always stayed in my memory. 

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