More of my 1947-48 (age 15-16) photos. Occasionally, I got a ride, too! PCCs of the McDonald Ave Line, shared the freight tracks, and the freight service outlasted the PCCs.
Electric freight in Brooklyn? I had no idea. When did it end? I also like the hand-painted "truck for hire" in the one photo.
The South Brooklyn Railroad still exists as a freight-only subsidiary of the New York City Transit Authority, reporting to the STB. Its main and possibly now only customer is its owner, the Authority. It is kept alive as the terminating carrier for delivery of supplies and new cars, thus slightly lowering transportation costs for the Authority.
But one private customer, a private tank farm in the middle of the Coney Island shop and yards complex, may still exist. It did when I moved to Jerusalem 22-1/2 years ago.
Access to the freight railroad system exists via from 39th Street (Brooklyn) Yard connection to the Port Authority's Bush Terminal and then via New York and Atlantic (freight LIRR) to Fresh Pond Junction and then CSX or barge across from Bay Ridge to Greenville and CSX and NS (Conrail Shared Assetts) there. There also may a barge terminal at 207th Street Yards.
But the surface tracks on McDonald Avenue were gone 22 years ago. Freight from 39th Street yard to Coney Island would operate over the West End Line, now the "B." Platform clearance restrictions would apply.
Thank you Mr. Klepper. It would be an interesting subject for modelling.
daveklepper The South Brooklyn Railroad still exists as a freight-only subsidiary of the New York City Transit Authority, reporting to the STB. Its main and possibly now only customer is its owner, the Authority. It is kept alive as the terminating carrier for delivery of supplies and new cars, thus slightly lowering transportation costs for the Authority. But one private customer, a private tank farm in the middle of the Coney Island shop and yards complex, may still exist. It did when I moved to Jerusalem 22-1/2 years ago. Access to the freight railroad system exists via from 39th Street (Brooklyn) Yard connection to the Port Authority's Bush Terminal and then via New York and Atlantic (freight LIRR) to Fresh Pond Junction and then CSX or barge across from Bay Ridge to Greenville and CSX and NS (Conrail Shared Assetts) there. There also may a barge terminal at 207th Street Yards. But the surface tracks on McDonald Avenue were gone 22 years ago. Freight from 39th Street yard to Coney Island would operate over the West End Line, now the "B." Platform clearance restrictions would apply.
“Things of quality have no fear of time.”
Not many in my life's time-scale. You are right. Definitely the "D."
On my day in the USA before moving to Israel, 10 July 1996, I had two things to do: Give a talk to the American Guild of Organists, and get my checked luggage to the El Al advanced check-in office near the 50th Street Station of the West End Line, then still served by the B, not the D.
Anyway, here are some more pictures. Apparently, one of my Brooklyn visits coincided by the first use of a new second-hand diesel. And I believe I got to ride it! Otherwise the picture from the freight track toward the tunnel with a BMT steel West End or Culver train about to turn into the 4th Avenue Subway could have been taken.
Trainweb page has a lot of information
http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/indloco/sbr.html
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
And think about it. I remember, around 1952? When the D first ran to Coney Island. It chased the F off the F off to Church Avenue, with the F short-turned at Houston - B'way - Lafayeette, and entered Coney Island on the Culver, over McDonald Avenue. Then, with the Chrystie Street connection in 1967, it permitted the F to return to Church Avenue and use the Culver, moving to the Brighton, which lost some, but not all, of its via Tunnel and Via Bridge Broadway Manhattsn service, now the Q and for a time a QB. Then came the swap with the B and its use of the West End. The D does get around.
Dave - You've got me by a few years (just a few), but I know those locations well. Thanks for the wonderful photos. As pre-teens in the late 40's, my brother and I would roam the entire subway system, alone and without fear. Was either a dime apiece or a dime for both of us, don't recall, but it was a great time to be a kid in NYC. George
More restored:
Isn't that locomotive in the last photo a Whitcombe? Not sure of the spelling.
Army surplus. They bought two, their number 8 and 9. 1 - 7 were electrics, mostly steeplecabs. But they also had a tiny Whitcome or Porter, also among the photos.
daveklepper More restored:
Question for some historian . Top picture car number is ART 26919. ART was listed as Allentown & Reading Traction 5' - 2-1/2" guage . Allentown & Kutztown Traction ( AKT ) a predecessor . Obvious question . How is it on the South Brooklyn RR ? Best could find out Reading traction ( RT ) also involved. Dual guage RR ?
You sure that's not American Refrigerator Transit? Looks like a reefer to me.
blue streak 1Question for some historian . Top picture car number is ART 26919.
Go back and look at the pictures from Nov 27, 8:38. That will answer your question.
(And no, that's not snazzy paint, it's the shadow of the elevated structure!)
Correct. Thanks.
Front (rear) view of a South Brooklyn Steeple-Cab:
DSchmitt Trainweb page has a lot of information http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/indloco/sbr.html
Dave Klepper: Here is another website that will bring you more links (primarily warehousing and docks railroading in the Brooklyn, NY area).
It is chock full of interesting links, and information; as is, the link above, provided by DSchmidt.
http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/BEDT.html
Basicly: "Brooklyn Eastern District Terminal and Palmer's Dock East River Terminal RR."
Henry Raudenbush has supplied some more photos, corrected me on a few points, and pointed out that the buildings I thought were fpr a private firm with the diesel at both entrances, one with trolley wire and one without, were actually the Brooklyn Bus maintenance and overhaul center, now in newer facilities in East New York.
The last photo is not South Brooklyn, but is posted to give an idea of the elevated structure over the map of the interhange yard for Bush Terminal and South Brooklyn, the latter th owner, and staging for the SBK's 39th Street car-float-barge installation, which was active at the time, but has been gone for a long time.
Here is some of the correspondance:
The SBK consisted of five sections, each with a different character (my numbers, not official).
1 – Surface operation parallel to 39th St, from the Bay to 4th Ave, w/trolley wire.
2 - Tunnel through the hill from 4th Ave to about 8th Ave, shared with the subway, third rail
3 – Surface operation through the BMT 39th St yard, from 6th Ave to about 10th Ave, trolley wire
4 – Surface operation (SBK only) under Culver el, from 10th Ave to MacDonald Ave; trolley wire
5 – Surface operation under Culver el Ditmas Ave to Ave X, shared with B&QT streetcars, trolley wire
Map A and pictures AA-I are all in Section 1.
Your picture at 4th Ave is at the junction of Sections 1 and 2. The subway train (Culver or West End) is about to curve into the 4th Ave subway.
The connection from Section 2 to Section 3 involved a switchback move; Section 3 paralleled the BMT 9th Ave station.
The connection to the LIRR was at Ave H and MacDonald, in Section 5.
(I hope to find and post photo of that connection in the future. - Dave)
Henry, thanks.
At the time the Culver shuttle was ended, I believe Section 3 was revised, with the track to McDonald Avenue connected to one of the lower-level 9th Avenue Station tracks, and the trolley-wire bypass ended. On a fan-trip specially to visit Coney Island shops around 1967-1970, our streetcar did go left from McDonald Avenue as far as the operator thought safe keeping one car-length from, as he said (and some observed) "The start of 3rd Rail," Can you check on this? Attached are pix of the Peter Witt on this trackage from that trip.
(from the Coney Island Shop thread)
Do you know the use of the former bus maintenance shop and does it involve rail service with the Port Authority's Bush Terminal?
The Truck-for-Hire photo is under the McDonald Av. El. Note the station. Is this just north of the Av. X Station looking south?
Regarding the use of TA narrowed interchange-worthy hopper cars: Was not there a period from the end of facilities at both 145th and Lenox and at 129th and 3rd to the end of coal-burning stoves at stations on the remainder of the 3rd Avenue El when these cars must have been used in coal service as well as ballast? Have you seen Roger Acara's excellent U-Tube 3rd Avenue El movie? Apparently, the Willis Avenue connection was used at first and then the NYW&B, with coal heating ending before the latter became unnecessary with the Concourse IND-IRT connection.
The 4th Avenue connection is now the only TA connection to the National Freight system, or is there one at Bay Ridge also?
On 3/29/19, Henry Raudenbush <raudenrail@msn.com> wrote:
> Here are the pictures I sent. Picture G is from Ed Doyle; C and E from
> Google the others are probably from Frank Pfuhler .
Actually, these changes came in stages. As you can see in this picture, at the connection between Sections 3 and 4, a connection was made from the SBK Section 4, down into the northernmmost track of the 9th Ave station, evidently before the track material yard (Section 3) was converted to 3rd rail. The principal
When the culver line was disconnected at Ditmas Ave, a switch was installed so that the stub at Ditmas was connected to both outer tracks of the el west of there. Off-peak service shuttles used both tracks between Ditmas and 9 Ave as did rush hour “Culver Express” trains from Ditmas to the Nassau St loop, mostly run with ex- SIRT cars. These trains used the middle and south tracks in the 9th Ave station.
The track material yard (Section 3) parallel to and north of the 9th Ave station later was converted to third rail mostly so that the big Brownhoist cranes used there could operate without restriction. The third rail was extended past the east end of the track material yard on the surface track under the el, and this piece was fenced off. In part of that area, the tracks had been used as bocce courts; the mud ballast had grown up over the ties, which made this easy. The bocce courts were relocated further east.
Later still, the shuttle began to run both direction on the southernmost track for its last few years. After it was finally abandoned, the Section 4 el structure was torn down.
The former bus maintenance shop (1888 building) was completely torn down about 1947. The site was leased to the Davidson company, a wholesaler of steel pipe, who used the site to store stacks of pipe. More recently, the Davidson area, and the SBK yard north of it were cleared, and taken over by a COSTCO store and parking lot. A single track remains, connected at 4th Ave, but slewed over to the south edge of the parking lot. I’m not sure that it gets any use now.
The “Truck-for-Hire” also appears in one of your other pix (attached), which has to be at 13th Ave and 38 St, where SBK crossed the Church Ave streetcar line – note the crossing frogs.
Those interchange-worthy hopper cars would not have been much use in delivering coal to the stations. The wood-side gondolas used by the IRT and the BMT’s special car 3070 both allowed coal to be shoveled into buckets on a station platform, to be dumped into a bin there, or carried down to the stove. This would not have been possible with a hopper car. Also I don’t think those hopper cars were acquired until some time after the stations were converted to electric heat. They came as part of W.Schlager’s mechanization of track maintenance.
There has never been an interchange connection to the LIRR at Bay Ridge, although the Sea Beach line and the RR are side by side.
The TA now has a track material yard in Brownsville with track co92nnections to the Long Island Rail Road, the Livonia Avenue IRT elevated structure (2), and the Canarsie Line (L).
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