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Anxiety in tunnel, panic at Penn

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Anxiety in tunnel, panic at Penn
Posted by wanswheel on Friday, April 14, 2017 11:48 PM
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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, April 15, 2017 12:10 AM

Stuck in the Hudson River Tunnel for 3 1/2 hours with no power, no lights, no water....what? No announcements or information, no rescue protocol, a passenger broke a window to escape...what?

I dunno guys, that sounds pretty pretty bad...what the heck is going on? 

 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, April 15, 2017 9:15 AM

Panic is contagious, no doubt about it. 

And concerning NJ Transit, I'm reminded of a quote from Casey Stengal, baseball great and one-time manger of the New York Mets...

"Can't anybody here play this here game?"

Oh, and the Chief's accent makes me homesick!

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Posted by CandOforprogress2 on Saturday, April 15, 2017 1:28 PM

About that new tunnel that Wick says we need....

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, April 15, 2017 11:30 PM

confused.  Thought both Amtrak, NJT, & LIRR kept rescue locos stationed at NYPS?. 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, April 16, 2017 10:41 AM

blue streak 1

confused.  Thought both Amtrak, NJT, & LIRR kept rescue locos stationed at NYPS?. 

 

Apparantly they never heard of the concept of "protection power."

"Can't anybody play this here game?"

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Monday, April 17, 2017 9:11 AM

Firelock76

 

 
blue streak 1

confused.  Thought both Amtrak, NJT, & LIRR kept rescue locos stationed at NYPS?. 

 

 

 

Apparantly they never heard of the concept of "protection power."

"Can't anybody play this here game?"

 

doesn't Amtrak keep  and turn locomotives at its Sunnyside yard in NYC? There must be locos thier that provide protection for trains originating at nyp.

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, April 17, 2017 3:52 PM

ROBERT WILLISON
Firelock76
blue streak 1

confused.  Thought both Amtrak, NJT, & LIRR kept rescue locos stationed at NYPS?.

Apparantly they never heard of the concept of "protection power."

"Can't anybody play this here game?"

doesn't Amtrak keep  and turn locomotives at its Sunnyside yard in NYC? There must be locos thier that provide protection for trains originating at nyp.

Getting an engine from Sunnyside to a trouble that is not at Sunnyside is not snap the fingers easy. 

1. Is there a qualified crew 'available' to get the engine and go the train that is in trouble?
2. What kind of rail traffic has to be negotiated to get the engine from Sunnyside to where the trouble is?

In many cases there IS NOT a free qualified crew available, a crew has to be 'stolen' from another assignment that is qualified and on duty.  In many cases the Engineer will have to 'Calendar Day' inspect the locomotive for FRA defects - a 10 to 15 minute procedure.  As AMTK, NJT and LIRR are all different operating companies there 'MAY' be restrictions for one company's employees operating another company's power to rescue the 3rd company's train.

As has been said about many things, 'Who knew it was so complicated?'

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, April 17, 2017 5:36 PM

Used to be a spare  Amtrak electric motor was parked at the old mail facility.  Sometimes also a dual mode loco.  The rescue situation needs both electric and diesel loco in case electric system(s) shut down. 

As well both FRA knuckle couplers and EMU couplers.  Anyone know if LIRR and NJT couplers compatible ?  If not there is another problem.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Monday, April 17, 2017 6:47 PM

blue streak 1

Used to be a spare  Amtrak electric motor was parked at the old mail facility.  Sometimes also a dual mode loco.  The rescue situation needs both electric and diesel loco in case electric system(s) shut down. 

As well both FRA knuckle couplers and EMU couplers.  Anyone know if LIRR and NJT couplers compatible ?  If not there is another problem.

Geneset maybe?   I wonder if they could design a Geneset's diesel half be shut off while in the tunnel and just use it's battery power?

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Posted by Firelock76 on Monday, April 17, 2017 7:01 PM

Balt ACD, I would never, EVER, say you didn't know what you were talking about.  You're the professional, I'm the hobbyist.  But look what happens when they DON'T have protection power of any kind.

You know the old saying, "Where there's a will, there's a way."  A situation like this is intolerable.  Amtrak and NJ Transit should know better and plan for contingencies like this. 

Remember, people will excuse failure, we all fail at one time or another.  What they won't excuse is inaction, or the perception of inaction.

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Posted by sandyhookken on Monday, April 17, 2017 7:02 PM

The following is from an NJT Engineer that I know:

The train that failed was powered by a locomotive (not EMU's). The carbon slider on the pantograph detached, resulting in metal (pan) to metal (catenary) contact, eventually damaging the cat (possibly welding it to the pan).

The North (Hudson) River tunnels are equipped with third rail for use by rescue power when the cat has to be de-enegized. The delay here was due to the need to detangle the pan-cat mess.

Passangers were initially kept on the train until the downed cat could be confirmed de-energized. After that, my sourse didn't know why the additional delay.

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, April 18, 2017 9:28 AM

Firelock76
Balt ACD, I would never, EVER, say you didn't know what you were talking about.  You're the professional, I'm the hobbyist.  But look what happens when they DON'T have protection power of any kind.

You know the old saying, "Where there's a will, there's a way."  A situation like this is intolerable.  Amtrak and NJ Transit should know better and plan for contingencies like this. 

Remember, people will excuse failure, we all fail at one time or another.  What they won't excuse is inaction, or the perception of inaction.

The planning and communication necessary to produce 'observable' action is always viewed as inaction by those who are not involved in the steps necessary to produce observable action.  When attempting to explain the realities that have to be negotiated to produce observable actions those not involved will always dismiss what has to take place as 'excuses'.

Nothing happens just beacuse one person 'thinks' something should happen.  Thinking by itself doesn't make it happen.

I have no idea if any of the carriers do have 'protect' power available or not.  Just having power is only one element of resolving the issue - there are numerous other issues involved in resolving a service disruption and those issues cannot be disregarded.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

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Posted by wanswheel on Tuesday, April 18, 2017 10:23 AM

Excerpt from NJ.com, Apr. 17

"Amtrak has determined that the incident involving NJ Transit Train 3850 last Friday was not caused by Amtrak infrastructure, and that the preliminary cause appears to be a NJ Transit mechanical problem involving the train's pantograph (power collector)," said Mike Tolbert, an Amtrak spokesman in a statement on Monday.

http://nj.gov/governor/news/news/552017/approved/20170417e.html

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