Zoning and "Green Belts" in progressive cities tells people where they can and cant live by setting limits on "Urban Sprawl"

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Zoning and "Green Belts" in progressive cities tells people where they can and cant live by setting limits on "Urban Sprawl"
Posted by CandOforprogress2 on Thursday, December 15, 2016 6:10 AM

http://www.landrights.org/VideoGoodOfAll.htm is a movie depicting this policy that started in the GOP era of Nixon and Ford.

Richard Nixon in the 1970s and the US Department of the Interior helped set up 2 major greenbelts that set limits to urban growth. The Cuyahoga Valley National Recreation area was started in the Nixon Era and was implimented by December 27, 1974, President Gerald Ford signed the bill establishing the Cuyahoga Valley National Recreation Area. The concern was cleaning up the watershed of the Cuyahoga River which caught on fire a number of time from the 1960s and 1970s. Raw sewage was pouring into the river from Akron Ohio and concern that the two metro areas would merge into one unending gray goop. The National Park Service restricted private property and property could only be boaught or sold with there permission. The NPS condemed a number of private residences and also took over the land of a Defunct Paper Mill. The B and O railroad ran up the middle of the park and after abandonment of the route by CSX was taken over by the NPS and leased to the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railway. 

The second effort by the NPS was the C and O National Historic Park which was championed by US Supreme Court Justice "Wild" Bill Donavan which preserved the Right of way of the CandO Canal Towpath for 120 miles west of Georgetown DC. There was danger that the ROW would become a major highway and the Judge along with his hiking club successfully lobbied to have Chessie System sell the canal to the National Park Service. This in effect created a green belt between DC and MD Suberbs and the urban sprawl that was Northern Virgina. The Main Line of the B&O and the MARC Commuter Train also run through the heart of this park which can be as wide as 10 miles to 500 yards wide. The trail was extended to the Pittsburgh Suburbs via the Great Allegany Passage trail via Mkeesport PA and has restrictive land convents from Washington DC all the way to Pittsburgh PA on both sides of the trail.

The City of Portland OR is known for restricting urban growth within a 40 mile raduis of downtown via the 40 mile loop that was built with help from famouse New York Planner Robert B Moses. Urban Development is restricted by the state and the city to the confines of the 40 mile loop and corrals housing near urban rail and transit stops. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/40-Mile_Loop 

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Posted by ORNHOO on Thursday, December 15, 2016 5:05 PM

The second effort by the NPS was the C and O National Historic Park which was championed by US Supreme Court Justice "Wild" Bill Donavan which preserved the Right of way of the CandO Canal Towpath for 120 miles west of Georgetown DC.

 

The many accomplishments of General William J. Donovan do not incude a seat on the United States Supreme Court. Perhaps you refer to Jutice William O Douglas?

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Posted by 54light15 on Thursday, December 15, 2016 6:00 PM

Speaking of Wild Bill, in Buffalo there's a great bar called Pearl Street Brewing and there's a large picture of him standing next to a train. He's played by George Brent in the classic "The Fighting 69th" as great a movie as Warner Brothers ever made. 

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Posted by CandOforprogress2 on Monday, February 13, 2017 3:36 PM

oh yes that guy...

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Posted by Firelock76 on Thursday, February 16, 2017 7:28 PM

If you're a fan of "The Fighting 69th" here's something you should keep your eyes out for.  It's a book called "Father Duffy's Story,"  written in 1919 by Father Francis Duffy it's an informal history of the 69th New York during the First World War.  A great story, and you're hearing it from the good Father himself, the chaplain of the regiment. 

Father Duffy admits it wasn't his idea to do the book, Joyce Kilmer was to write it, but sadly didn't survive the war.

I'd imagine you'd have better luck finding it in the Greater New York City area, but again, it's one you shouldn't pass up.

I did some checking and I see it's been reprinted.  That's good.  But mine's from 1919!

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Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, February 16, 2017 7:58 PM

Of the three 1930's US Greenbelt towns*, NONE have railroads or rail transit. Two had drawings showing rail transit that never came (MD & OH).

Successfull Greenbelt Transportation Urban Planners = myth.

 

(*) Greenbelt MD, Greendale WI and Greenhills OH

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by zugmann on Thursday, February 16, 2017 8:18 PM

YOu know as much as I do, planners can only do so much.  Planning doesn't always equal to what gets built to satisfy those in charge.

 

Doesn't Greenbelt have a WMATA metro station?   I mean there's one called Greenbelt I used.  Is that not in Greenbelt?

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer or any other railroad, company, or person.

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Thursday, February 16, 2017 8:54 PM

mudchicken
Successfull Greenbelt Transportation Urban Planners = myth.   (*) Greenbelt MD, Greendale WI and Greenhills OH

Grew up in Greenhills OH. Only public transportation was an Ohio Bus Lines* route that ran about ten round trips a day with none on SUndays. Dad used it to get to work in Cincinnati where it used the Greyhound Bus Station. After WWII, dad got a used car and we had some mobility. But bus was reasonable cost for commuting. I hitchhiked to Univ. of Cincinnati and took the bus home. Current service is provided by SORTA. It still has no service on Sundays.

*Ohio Bus Lines took the routes of the C&LE Electric Interurban.

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Thursday, February 16, 2017 9:03 PM

zugmann
Doesn't Greenbelt have a WMATA metro station?

It's about 2 miles west of Greenbelt MD and is indicated to be in the suburb of COllege Park. Which is the next stop toward downtown DC. Greenbelt station  is the end of the Green and Yellow lines and is where WMATA has a yard.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, February 16, 2017 9:29 PM

zugmann
Doesn't Greenbelt have a WMATA metro station?   I mean there's one called Greenbelt I used.  Is that not in Greenbelt?

There is also a MARC commuter station at Greenbelt.  In fact, both MARC and WMATA serve the same facility.  I believe Greenbelt was a 'planned' community from the 1930's whose development was interupted by WW II and not really resumed in the post war boom.  Columbia, MD was the next 'planned' community developed by Rouse Company starting in the 1960's - without any reliance on public transportation.

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Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, February 16, 2017 9:35 PM

Electroliner 1935
 
mudchicken
Successfull Greenbelt Transportation Urban Planners = myth.   (*) Greenbelt MD, Greendale WI and Greenhills OH

 

Grew up in Greenhills OH. Only public transportation was an Ohio Bus Lines* route that ran about ten round trips a day with none on SUndays. Dad used it to get to work in Cincinnati where it used the Greyhound Bus Station. After WWII, dad got a used car and we had some mobility. But bus was reasonable cost for commuting. I hitchhiked to Univ. of Cincinnati and took the bus home. Current service is provided by SORTA. It still has no service on Sundays.

*Ohio Bus Lines took the routes of the C&LE Electric Interurban.

 

Small world - Greenhills HS - Pioneer Class of '74 (and sadly there is no High School anymore)...Assume that when you went, it was in the Community Building?

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by 54light15 on Friday, February 17, 2017 3:03 PM

Firelock, If you're ever in Times Square, in the north end of it which is actually Duffy Square, there is a statue of Father Duffy. No fair guessing who he looks like. Nearby is a statue of George M. Cohan. Yep, looks like Cagney. 

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Friday, February 17, 2017 4:15 PM

mudchicken
Assume that when you went, it was in the Community Building?

You are correct. Later, a new high school was built off of Hadley Rd and is now a middle school after a newer high school was built in Forest Park of of Kemper Rd near Winton Rd. But you probably know that. 

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Posted by mudchicken on Friday, February 17, 2017 7:31 PM

Image may contain: sky and outdoor

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by mudchicken on Friday, February 17, 2017 7:48 PM

  1935 WPA Artists Concept (showed streetcar line coming in  from the NE from Sharon Rd. and swinging south  through the center bottom of the image along Winton Rd. (Cincinnati Street Railway/Cincinnati Transit's streetcar line / Cincinnati & Hamilton Traction RR never got up to over here and was already in decline by 1932) Source: http://www.jjakucyk.com/transit/ch.html 

https://www.facebook.com/greenhillsohio/

Electroliner: If your folks weren't part of the original 1938 Pioneer bunch, they were darned close. My folks built a house on Deerhill LN in 1956 (Off of the original D-Block on Damon Road.)

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, February 19, 2017 10:18 AM

Hey 54light, I've been to Times Square and seen Father Duffy's statue. It's a great likeness, and  Pat O'Brian didn't look anything like him.

What Pat O'Brian got right, and absolutely right (from what I've read) was Father Duffy's personality.  Most photographs of Father Duffy show what looks like a stern, forbidding individual, but he wasn't like that at all.  When Father Duffy died in 1932 New York writer and columnist Alexander Woolcott said it broke his heart to think that when he walked along Broadway in the future he'd never see Father Duffy's smiling face there again.

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Posted by wanswheel on Sunday, February 19, 2017 6:58 PM

“A funeral for US troops killed in action during World War One, presided over by Father Duffy”

https://archive.org/stream/militarychaplain44unse#page/2/mode/2up

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, February 19, 2017 8:36 PM

That's Father Duffy on the left, the bald gent with the little girl on his right and the little boy on his left.

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Posted by NKP guy on Monday, February 20, 2017 8:45 AM

54light15

Firelock, If you're ever in Times Square, in the north end of it which is actually Duffy Square, there is a statue of Father Duffy. No fair guessing who he looks like. Nearby is a statue of George M. Cohan. Yep, looks like Cagney. 

 

I'm a great fan of George M. Cohan and think his statue in Times Square is a very fine likeness of this amiable, genial star of the American stage and music hall.  Just compare it to his photographs.

To me, James Cagney looked a little like Mr. Cohan.  

 

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Posted by artie on Tuesday, March 14, 2017 8:13 AM
In Cortlandt Manor (Peekskill) NY there is a New York Army National Guard base called Camp Smith. On the base is the Father Duffy Chapel which is an older wood building with a statue of Father Duffy outside. He is standing holding his hat in his hand. I got to see the Chapel a few years ago at about 0530 on my way to work on the base. I had never seen it open, although it probably is. I went inside and amazingly there was an Irish Army Chaplain, brogue and all, who gave me a tour. You could probably see it, at least from the outside, by showing your driver's license at the gate and telling the guards why you are visiting the post.
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Posted by 54light15 on Saturday, March 18, 2017 9:22 AM

I still think that the statue of Father Duffy looks like Pat O'Brien, but from what I've been reading here, Pat was the perfect man to play him. My father told me that George M. Cohan said that if they ever made a film about his life, he'd want Cagney to play him. If that's not true, it ought to be. 

I rented "The Fighting 69th" a few years back and it was a "Warner Night at the Movies" type with a newsreel, cartoon and a radio play of "the Fighting 69th." Interesting to say the least.

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Posted by Paul Milenkovic on Saturday, March 18, 2017 2:39 PM

Do you suppose "progressive cities telling people where the can and cannot live" has resulted in "pushback" from an electorate denied affordable housing?

Do you suppose this tension has contributed to the election of a president, who claims he supports HSR as part of an infrastucture plan, in his first Federal budget plan want to eviscerate Amtrak?

If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, March 20, 2017 7:28 AM

First of all, consider the usual choice of words from the OP for the various threads he has originated.  It's a poorly worded phrase that appears to be a complaint about zoning ordinances in general.  To be fair, lots of suburbs have used zoning ordinances and building codes in a thinly veiled attempt to keep out "undesirables".

As an example, some years ago the Village of Barrington complained mightily about the congestion that would result from Metra's proposed Circle Route on the EJ&E.  Many perceived it as a thinly veiled attempt to keep the working classes out of their municipality.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by CandOforprogress2 on Monday, March 20, 2017 3:36 PM

Yes when you have zoning that says that you have to only have single family houses on a minimum acerage keeps out low income renters who most likley be black and or hispanic.

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:25 PM

CandOforprogress2
Yes when you have zoning that says that you have to only have single family houses on a minimum acerage keeps out low income renters who most likley be black and or hispanic.

Don't worry, the land between the refinery, Hazardous Waste Dump and sewage treatment plant will be zoned for miminal acreage multi-family dwellings.

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