Denver RTD continuing problems with crossing gates

2614 views
10 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    December, 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 8,797 posts
Denver RTD continuing problems with crossing gates
Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, November 30, 2016 5:50 PM

The "A" line and "B" line are still experiencing activation problems.  The "B" has just one crossing but unknown how many on "A" line.  Consequently FRA has stopped testing on two other lines and RTD will not be able to begin service as planned for this year.

One has to wonder what the problem is.  RTD is using 25 Kv  60 Hz CAT.  Only Amtrak operates this in the USA at three (?) crossings in Rhode Island.  Maybe RTD needs to get into consultations with Amtrak ?  This problem solutions need close following by Caltrain who has many close crossings similar to "A" line and Go transit in Toronto since they are both planning to install the same 25 Kv 60 Hz CAT as RTD.  European and most other countries use 50 Hz and that may be why there has not been any reported problems.  Now part of Japan is 60 Hz but am unaware of it having any grade crossings ?

Here below is copy of announcement by RTD   

           

FasTracks News: Inside FasTracks -- November 2016 

 
 
FasTracks Program Team <comments@fastracks-comments.com> November 2016 Welcome to Inside RTD FasTracks-your monthly update about FasTracks news, progress and people FasTracks News RTD says rail lines to Arvada and Aurora will not open this year View of G Li
 
To
Today at 4:46 PM
  • Member since
    December, 2001
  • From: Denver / La Junta
  • 9,306 posts
Posted by mudchicken on Wednesday, November 30, 2016 6:35 PM

Hardly the only problem at RTD or CDOT, and it isn't a new emerging problem. Both are lacking in any form of railroad institutional management/leadership. The ineptitude of FTA was exposed by their FRA counterparts.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
  • Member since
    September, 2010
  • 1,351 posts
Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Thursday, December 01, 2016 5:54 PM

Does any one know what type of sensing they use for control of the crossing protection? Is it being affected by power harmonics? 

  • Member since
    February, 2005
  • From: Southwest US
  • 12,914 posts
Posted by tomikawaTT on Thursday, December 01, 2016 6:02 PM

Japan simply strung 60hz catenary over lines built for and operated with steam locomotives.  The hundreds (thousands) of crossing gates and warning flashers that had been operating since early in the 20th century were upgraded the way Pennsy upgraded grade crossing devices under their new catenary a quarter-century earlier.

Translation.  No whoop-de-do software or microchip logic circuits, just big old brute force and ignorance circuits involving massive, virtually indestructable sealed relays.  If there have been improvements since they were undoubtedly tested for months or years before being deployed to the field.  Of course, JR East (where the 60 hz catenary is) is run by railroad professionals, from the line signal maintainers to the President's office...

Chuck (Japanophile railfan/observer)

  • Member since
    February, 2011
  • 101 posts
Posted by sandyhookken on Wednesday, December 07, 2016 11:03 AM

New Jersey Transit has operated their former DL&W commuter lines at 25 Kv 60 Hz since 1984. These lines, especially the Gladstone branch, have many grade crossings. I checked with an NJTransit engineer who told me that they (NJT) do not have any grade crossing issues except for one specific location. The overhead line voltage and frequency should not be THE culprit in Denver.

RME
  • Member since
    March, 2016
  • 2,073 posts
Posted by RME on Wednesday, December 07, 2016 11:11 AM

sandyhookken
New Jersey Transit has operated their former DL&W commuter lines at 25 Kv 60 Hz since 1984. These lines, especially the Gladstone branch, have many grade crossings. I checked with an NJTransit engineer who told me that they (NJT) do not have any grade crossing issues except for one specific location. The

They didn't source their equipment or programming from Europe, did they?

Of course there's a lot of 25kV cat over there, too, so it would be surprising, if not particularly unexpected, that something like interference with 60Hz rather than 50Hz turns out to be an unrecognized issue ...

  • Member since
    December, 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 8,797 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, June 10, 2017 2:04 AM

Same old story.  Continuing problems with gate activation problems.  Appears PTC computer system causes gates to activate too soon and remain down after train passes. According to a source in Denver FRA and Colorado are geting to be a joke ? 

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2017/06/08/a-line-crossing-gate-rtd/ 

 

 

  • Member since
    May, 2003
  • From: US
  • 14,684 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Monday, June 12, 2017 3:44 PM

blue streak 1
Same old story.  Continuing problems with gate activation problems.  Appears PTC computer system causes gates to activate too soon and remain down after train passes. According to a source in Denver FRA and Colorado are geting to be a joke ? 

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2017/06/08/a-line-crossing-gate-rtd/

What a buch of rubes!  It's not rocket science or brain surgery if they would get the heads out of their posteriors.

         

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

  • Member since
    December, 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 8,797 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, August 30, 2018 7:59 PM

Flaggers have returned.  It is too bad that there cannot be some legal way to jail some of the idiots that tried to put this PTC controlled crossings into place.

https://www.masstransitmag.com/news/12427330/this-is-never-going-to-end-a-line-flaggers-return-signaling-more-delays-for-quiet-zones-rtds-g-line-launch 

  • Member since
    December, 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 8,797 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, September 21, 2018 3:00 PM

Now the contractor is suing RTD over cost over runs due to having to post flaggers at crossings.  This will get nasty in all possible ways.  The contract that was signed specifying type of crossing protection to be installed may rule the day but who knows the final outcome.  Did crossing protection specify PTC activated ?  Did contractor say it could be done or not done ? Probably many more questions ? ?

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2018/09/21-problems-with-denver-airport-rail-line-lead-to-lawsuit

 

  • Member since
    December, 2001
  • From: Denver / La Junta
  • 9,306 posts
Posted by mudchicken on Friday, September 21, 2018 7:06 PM

Pot calling the kettle black. Amusing to no end here - The common carrier railroaders in the engineering ranks told the commuter rail /toy  train/ people not to do what they did and stay with proven technology. They ignored the advice of the experienced railroaders. Both sides were stupid to follow through with an umproven technology. They earned the mess they've gotten into with their foolishness.

Transportation Engineers = Rubber Tired Bus People (not railroaders)

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy