Latest rumor from another group.
BREAKING NEWS – UPDATED 16:45 EDT 02JUL2016
Damage is far more severe than previously reported, no word as yet from SEPTA, or if the FRA and NTSB have been notified as required.
Reports are coming in that there is a speed restriction, some sources say 50-MPH for non-damaged cars; Philadelphia commuter can expect major and significant service impact come Tuesday morning rush hour.
Original:
Received from a “undisclosed source” that the Hyundai Rotem EMU’s supplied to both Philadelphia’s SEPTA and Denver’s RTD Commuter Rail may have significant “stabilizer bar” issues, including “cracked stabilizer bars”.
That SEPTA will remove Silverliner V’s from service with the “cracked stabilizer bars”.
Equalizing bars on the trucks.
Looks like a 1/3 of the fleet down. NJT any cars to spare? Wonder how Denver is coping.
https://www.facebook.com/nbcphiladelphia/videos/10154295475167232/
and if u you are not on Facebook try this.
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/SEPTA-Silverliner-V-Removal-120-Regional-Rail-Fleet-385318801.html
More information
This afternoon, SEPTA announced that all 120 of its Silverliner V Regional Rail cars had been removed from service due to a “serious structural defect.”
More information is now available about the nature of the defect.
Read more at
http://www.phillymag.com/news/2016/07/02/new-info-on-septa-silverliner-v-defect/#CYqOM4UK8HXjidrY.99
BuslistMore information is now available about the nature of the defect.
About the most useful thing in that article was the comment at the end:
"SEPTA has a hotline for more information: 1-800-4-NO-CLUE. Overpaid and underqualified executives standing by!"
The string of articles so far on this problem are notable for having some of the most strained and worthless descriptions of what 'trucks' are that I've had the misfortune to read. It does not help that I can't find a detailed technical discussion of the Silverliner V's truck design on the Web anywhere, although I'm sure that material exists (for example, the OpenBVE people have modeled the vehicle physics).
Are there any comments or reports by the company that subcontracted the trucks?
On the other hand, the article's description of the reason for the anticipated horror delays was most enlightening. What it does not take up (I'm not sure why; it was a glaring question with only a little reading) was what caused the failures, and whether just replacing the failed parts will prevent a recurrence. I detect a common-mode failure of significant proportions here, one that is unlikely to be a materials or production failure in the 'bars' themselves (or they would not be talking about restricted stocks of replacement parts). If the situation is being produced by a fundamental 'design deficit', add necessary re-engineering (and perhaps workarounds) to the cost and timeline.
Replacing cracked "stabilizer bars" can mean anything from replacing a defective bar with an uncracked one to replacing the entire truck. Without knowing why the bars cracked (poor mettalurgy or above-design-limit stress?) or where they are on the truck (do the motors and/or axles have to come out to replace the part?) it's tough to predict. What we can almost certainly predict is that appropriate replacements for large numbers just do not exist, and even if they did, they would be subject to the same failure as the ones on the cars as delivered.
Overmod Buslist More information is now available about the nature of the defect. About the most useful thing in that article was the comment at the end: "SEPTA has a hotline for more information: 1-800-4-NO-CLUE. Overpaid and underqualified executives standing by!" The string of articles so far on this problem are notable for having some of the most strained and worthless descriptions of what 'trucks' are that I've had the misfortune to read. It does not help that I can't find a detailed technical discussion of the Silverliner V's truck design on the Web anywhere, although I'm sure that material exists (for example, the OpenBVE people have modeled the vehicle physics). Are there any comments or reports by the company that subcontracted the trucks? On the other hand, the article's description of the reason for the anticipated horror delays was most enlightening. What it does not take up (I'm not sure why; it was a glaring question with only a little reading) was what caused the failures, and whether just replacing the failed parts will prevent a recurrence. I detect a common-mode failure of significant proportions here, one that is unlikely to be a materials or production failure in the 'bars' themselves (or they would not be talking about restricted stocks of replacement parts). If the situation is being produced by a fundamental 'design deficit', add necessary re-engineering (and perhaps workarounds) to the cost and timeline.
Buslist More information is now available about the nature of the defect.
Trucks are GSI 70s GSI is a reputable firm. I don't know if the 70 is a new design. The cars were modeled by a independent third party for Denver not SEPTA. I don't believe any problems were identified.
A quick search of the Denver Post and RTD websites show nothing related to this issue.
BuslistTrucks are GSI 70s GSI is a reputable firm. I don't know if the 70 is a new design.
Aha! For some reason I was thinking the Hyundai Rotem trucks were some new and advanced lightweight design... should have known better!
I thought GSI and Buckeye were both long gone, and the trucks were being made by Columbus which is having its own problems. This situation can't possibly help their situation...
Closest thing I can find to a picture of a powered inside-bearing 70 on short notice is from a Sliverliner IV: this has the outside links disconnected and removed
I do not know if this is 'typical' of the actual design of the secondary suspension being used under the Silverliner Vs, although I would suspect the parts that are breaking have some 'refinement' in design and/or material that is causing the common-mode problem. Be nice to see a competent engineer give an assessment of this when it has been analyzed.
Some people here might find the ord9601 technical reference useful for some understanding of the context of how these trucks 'work'. (The reference dates back to 1995, but the basic truck engineering dates back much further... OCD alert - this is a long PDF download full of dry technical stuff, so you might want to avoid it if you only have drive-by schadenfreude)
Local report that all SL-5s grounded for inspections with only 5 no problems yet found. It may be Amtrak can supply some AEM-7s and ACS-64s ? ? Hopefully enough loco hauled passener cars can be borrowed and SEPTA can put as many of its other EMUs back in service ?
http://www.philly.com/philly/business/transportation/20160704_SEPTA__Serious_cracks_found_in_95_percent_of_cars_inspected_so_far.html
copied from SEPTA bulletin
General Announcement:RRD: Starting Tuesday Regional Rail service will operate on a modified schedule due to a defect in our Silverliner V equipment. Details on enhanced service. Passengers are encouraged to make adjustments in their travel plans.Trolley:Routes 10, 11, 13, 34, 36: The upcoming Trolley Tunnel Blitz scheduled to start July 8th has been postponed until further notice. Check the SEPTA website for up-to-date information.Regional Rail: Trenton: Outbound train #9727 is experiencing delays of up to 15 minutes. Cynwyd: Starting Tuesday, shuttle buses will replace trains until further notice. Check System Status and SEPTA’s website for more details.
081552 A quick search of the Denver Post and RTD websites show nothing related to this issue.
It may be that the Denver cars and track are new enough that fatigue issues have not yet developed.
OvermodSome people here might find the ord9601 technical reference useful for some understanding of the context of how these trucks 'work'. (The reference dates back to 1995, but the basic truck engineering dates back much further... OCD alert - this is a long PDF download full of dry technical stuff, so you might want to avoid it if you only have drive-by schadenfreude)
Thanks for the link.
Here is a nice diagram of the trucks from the Phila Inquirer
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
The situation is similar to one in the early 1980's with the RTA. A large batch of Grumman/Flxible buses delivered to RTA for suburban routes began suffering from cracks in the suspension (I don't remember exactly what was involved) and RTA had to pull a lot of GMC "New Look" buses out of storage to cover the service.
The equilizer beam broke right where it begins to curve up to rest on the bearing seat in the picture at work, haven't seen any pics of the cracks yet.
Since this is about car trucks, have the following question.
I have had an experience twice for which I have never had a good explanation. The first was in the early Amtrak days while on a trip on the Lake Shore Limited going South out of Albany in a "heritage" coach. We were at speed (near 90 mph) and on curves and the car experienced what to me were severe hard lateral side blows that made me think about a croquet ball being struck by a mallet, as we navigated the curves. It happened about four or five times. The second time was on a B.C. Rail Budd car North of Quesnel, BC and I know we were exceeding the timetable speed (50 mph) as we entered the curve at about 65 mph. Again the car experinced hard side knocks as we went through the curve. This was in the early 1990's. Older engineer didn't seem phased by it and I didn't say anything. Can anyone suggest the cause? My thought was the wheel was trying to climb the rail and falling back down.
What you probably felt was the swing hanger which supports the bolster banging against the truck frame. In a "knee-bone-connected" sort of way, the equalizers sit on the axle journals, the truck springs (usually coil) sit on the equalizer bars, the truck frame sits on the truck springs, the swing hangers hang from the truck frame and are attached on the bottom to the spring plank. The bolster springs (coil or leaf) sit on the spring plank, the bolster sits on the bolster springs, and the car sits on the bolster. RDCs had inside swing links, so all you could see was the end of the leaf spring that was the bolster spring. Later truck designs put the swing hangers on the outside, and often used coil springs instead of leaves. Some types of ouside swing hanger trucks were restricted from ex-NYC third-rail lines, so what you probably had under the car was a truck similar to the RDC truck, if a bit larger.
Some foward progress on the Silverliner V equalizer bar problems.
http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists/jason_laughlin/20160720_Maker_of_SEPTA_rail_cars_blames_cracks_on_flawed_weld.html
Kudos to Hyundai Rotem for getting rolling rather quickly on material.
Sounds like the supplier didn't normalize after welding... Hyundai Rotem should have caught this in the first place, though.
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