Traffic in Pittsburgh and Southwestern PA is garbage, I hate to say it (not really) but it is. THe roads are in terrible shape as well. So I am asking, should the City of Pittsburgh/Penndot/Amtrak/someone create a commuter rail service that terminates in Pittsburgh and spreads out to the neighborhoods of Pittsburgh Metro (Greensburg, Monongahela, Scottdale, Beaver, etc)?
(My Model Railroad, My Rules)
These are the opinions of an under 35 , from the east end of, and modeling, the same section of the Wheeling and Lake Erie railway. As well as a freelanced road (Austinville and Dynamite City railroad).
Pittsburgh used to have a suburban passenger rail network on both PRR and P&LE. The last of the PRR Pittsburgh suburban trains were discontinued in 1964 and a single round-trip on P&LE lasted into the 1980's under PAT sponsorship. Pittsburgh Railways also had some suburban operations. The service was there, it died from lack of use.
CSSHEGEWISCH Pittsburgh used to have a suburban passenger rail network on both PRR and P&LE. The last of the PRR Pittsburgh suburban trains were discontinued in 1964 and a single round-trip on P&LE lasted into the 1980's under PAT sponsorship. Pittsburgh Railways also had some suburban operations. The service was there, it died from lack of use.
You are overlooking the service that was provided on the B&O between McKeesport and the Grant Street station in Pittsburgh.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD CSSHEGEWISCH Pittsburgh used to have a suburban passenger rail network on both PRR and P&LE. The last of the PRR Pittsburgh suburban trains were discontinued in 1964 and a single round-trip on P&LE lasted into the 1980's under PAT sponsorship. Pittsburgh Railways also had some suburban operations. The service was there, it died from lack of use. You are overlooking the service that was provided on the B&O between McKeesport and the Grant Street station in Pittsburgh.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Pittsburgh suffers from a accident of geography.
First - there are mountains all around the city which limits running straight tracks.
Second - the present day RRs into PIT mainly followed the three rivers which wind thru and around city center.
Third - the land under the topsoil is very unstable as there is much shale that is allows water to infiltrate and subjects roads to frost heave. Many roads now have French drains below the pavement of at least 10 feet. Even so roads there do not stay smooth except for a few short years.
The P&LE commuter rail line took almost 2 - 1/4 further miles than as the crow flies. Light rail as well is a winding type service. Roads are not much better.
To provide good light rail or commuter rail would take mega bucks with many tunnels to provide a descent time to get downtown. That applies to either light rail or heavy rail.
Philadelphia suffers from some of the same type of topography but not as much. Note Septa's average speeds and many curves.
schlimmWhen was that discontinued?
PATrain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PATrain
Yes, the South Hills do have good suburban light rail service. East, you have bus rapid transit on the PATWay. Elesewhere? Long gone.
Yeah, the Mon Valley has GARBAGE busses that clog up rt88. Main street of Monongahela is extremely wide, wide enough for the trolley line to be put back in and still leave street parking and two lanes of traffic.
The issue is with funding. It took years to expand to the North Side ($ 500 K to dig the tunnel when a perfectly good PRR bridge sat up at the Strip District with a light rail station right across Grant Street.) The system is soo poor the T line through Allentown was shut down and service discontinued to the Amtrak station. The Drake line never came back. Unless Steel Town has a big boom (3rd renaissance a charm?) don't see any rail expansion.
O, and the rail line to the old B&O terminal? It's gone, converted to a trail and the station site an office building (has it's own T stop too!)
Glad I rode the Drake and the Allentown while they were around.
Drake had very little ridership after the line to South Hills Shopping Center was opened, or it may have been shut down at that time. I recall Drake simply ending in a loop in the middle of the woods with nothing much around, just because it was an available loop on the interurban that continued further. Allentown is still operable, and kept because it is the bypass should there be a problem in the South Hills tunnels, but there was not much ridership.
The Allegheny Valley RR was considering commuter service using modern RDCs. It would run from Arnold and New Kensington to Pittsburgh's Strip District, with stops at Oakmont and Penn Hills. The plan even included new trackage in the Strip to tie in with Port Authority's unused light rail ("T") spur from Penn Station and the Convention Center to the Steel Plaza T station. Haven't heard anything more on that for a few years, though, so I guess it's on the shelf.
A recent Port Authority public survey asked what Allegheny County transit projects should get priority. More respondents said "expand light rail" than bus rapid or anything else. So the idea of more rail transit isn't dead here. It will just take a lot of public demand, political will and sustainable funding. Can't see it happening over NS or CSX rails, though. Light rail expansion to the airport or North Hills is more likely, someday.
So you put in a rail transit system--commuter trains, subways, and Light Rail--and all the traffic will clear up, and the roads transformed into marvelous pavement in good repair.[Looks at roads and traffic in Philadelphia, Baltimore, and Washington D.C.......]
NOT.
these cities simply would not function without their rail transit systems, today
The roads were in terrible shape 30 years ago when the trains were being discontinued. And the north exprerssway wasn't even completed then!
PATransit keeps axing bus routes and reducing frequency due to low ridership. I also think it was foolish to tunnel under the river when the lower deck of the ft Wayne bridge is available from trackage that was placed to the station.
Several of the shortlines have run test trains on the lines they have acquired, but no funding shows up.
There is capacity if needed on the lines radiating. With CSX having streamlined to Beaver and beyond, capacity should be there. ex-PRR heading south west from Esplen could be used before other parties decide to turn it in to trails (then you'll never get it back!). I remember that there were rumors of using the Montour as a ring route around Pittsburgh.
It would make more sense to provide frequent service to Cleveland or Harrisburg/Philadelphia and free up capacity on the crappy turnpike.
mbv9415 There is capacity if needed on the lines radiating. With CSX having streamlined to Beaver and beyond, capacity should be there. ex-PRR heading south west from Esplen could be used before other parties decide to turn it in to trails (then you'll never get it back!). I remember that there were rumors of using the Montour as a ring route around Pittsburgh.
CSX from Braddock to New Castle is a nominal Single track operation. Real Estate is available to expand, however, who pays for it?
The way the tax setup for PA state is a little strange. There is a poured drink tax or a bar tax that helps pay for the Pittsburgh transit system. Pittsburgh is a drinking and smoking city however try getting home on a bus or a train after last call..
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