Boardman warns NJ commuters

[Retired Trainman]

The tunnels are 104 years old, they can barely handle the traffic load now, if one failed then they had better have a lot of buses and or ferry boats lined up, the NY bridges and auto/ truck tunnels would not be able to handle the traffic. One has to wonder if NY city or the states of NJ and NY even have a plan in place for such a disaster If both failed then NY and NJ would see an economic nightmare..

[John WR]

Henry,

Am I missing something?  I have always understood that the ARC tunnels, while two tracks, would end at a station with more than two tracks although I don't know the exact number.   

Certainly you are correct about Amtrak and the Long Island Railroad and I don't think I suggested anything any different.   

As far as getting to the east side is concerned, ideally that would be possible.   But often in this world we must accept less than the ideal solution.   I understand most people work in lower Manhattan in the financial district.   That is and would continue to be an additional subway ride.   

I appreciate your passionate opinion.   But when ARC to cancelled there were some pretty passionate opinions on the other side too.   

John

[henry6]

I always thought the ARC plan was a two track station south of present NYP with no connections to anything thus useless to Amtrak and not a real solution. I am surprised Christie shut it down because it would have given NJ control of ARC. But that would also give NJ and NJT a bad position in the game overall, would have made more enemies than friends. As I said, too, part of the reasoning 5 and 10 years ago was to get NJ'ians to Manhattan's East Side. But today, business has swung west of 6th Ave and it is not as important to reach the East Side as it was. A lot of people work the financial district in lower Manhattan but a lot more people work elsewhere in the City.

[henry6]

Retired Trainman

The tunnels are 104 years old, they can barely handle the traffic load now, if one failed then they had better have a lot of buses and or ferry boats lined up, the NY bridges and auto/ truck tunnels would not be able to handle the traffic. One has to wonder if NY city or the states of NJ and NY even have a plan in place for such a disaster If both failed then NY and NJ would see an economic nightmare..

Going back over this thread, this is what the thread is all about. And the answers are, NO. There are some minor short term plans but nothing long term. There has to be a call to action on the part of partisan and parochial politicians which just isn't happening. The deception for many is the new Penn Sta project west of the current NYP: it is a station project and not a new tunnel project.

[blue streak 1]

Retired Trainman

The tunnels are 104 years old, they can barely handle the traffic load now, if one failed then they had better have a lot of buses and or ferry boats lined up, the NY bridges and auto/ truck tunnels would not be able to handle the traffic. One has to wonder if NY city or the states of NJ and NY even have a plan in place for such a disaster If both failed then NY and NJ would see an economic nightmare..

 

Correct.  Boardman's statement is about the probability of when not if.  Of course the new tunnels will allow major rehab of the old tunnels hopefully one at a time.  The surveys about the condition of the tunnels is not public knowledge.  How can the public even judge when it is prudent to close one tunnel for major rehab ?  Rehab needs to begin before the probability of failure of one tunnel becomes very high ?  

 

 

[henry6]

One bore of the tunnels is closed each weekend for continuous repair and maintenance projects. Amtrak, along with NJT traffic to and from Dover, Trenton, Rahway, South Amboy, and Long Branch are fleeted in and out on single track between Bergen and NYP Friday nights to Monday morning.

[blue streak 1]

henry6

One bore of the tunnels is closed each weekend for continuous repair and maintenance projects.

Henry hasn't this been happening for some time ?  Believe only Thanksgiving, Christmas, Super Bowl, & Easter weekends one tunnel not closed ?

[henry6]

Several years in fact.

[BaltACD]

Isn't Boardman's point that even with all the weekend band aids the Hudson Tunnels will only last another 20 years and REAL plans need to be made NOW to replace them?

Building new tunnels is not a one or two year construction project, especially not in the bedrock of the New York area.  After all the new Water Tunnel for New York has been under construction for 50 years.

[henry6]

BaltACD

Isn't Boardman's point that even with all the weekend band aids the Hudson Tunnels will only last another 20 years and REAL plans need to be made NOW to replace them?

Building new tunnels is not a one or two year construction project, especially not in the bedrock of the New York area.  After all the new Water Tunnel for New York has been under construction for 50 years.

All that and thensome...politicians have to stop playing politics and start doing something before it's too late.

[schlimm]

Great point.   It seems that  Boardman is wise to get more support from the public than just Amtrak users.  Waking up NJ commuters increases the base and the possibility that action will be taken, hopefully soon.

[henry6]

But it is not just those who ride the trains that are important to the future, it is all who benefit from the economy supported by it all.

[blue streak 1]

Another reason for more tunnels.  NJT breaks down at throat of Penn station blocking one tunnel.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/07/29/nj-transit-train-breaks-down-outside-new-york-city/

 

 

[John WR]

Henry,  

When all is said and done we have to accept that there will be no ARC tunnels.   It looks like Amtrak will build tunnels eventually but that will take some time.   In the meantime, the problems with the existing tunnels have been pointed out.   

Have a good summer.   

John

[John WR]

schlimm

It seems that  Boardman is wise to get more support from the public than just Amtrak users.

Schlimm,  

Joe Boardman is sure trying to build support wherever he can.  As the poet said,

"Say not the struggle naught availeth

 The Labor and the wounds are vain

 The enemy faints not nor faileth

 And as things have been things remain."

Have a good summer.

John

[BaltACD]

Doo, Doo or get off the pot - Anon

[henry6]

Amtrak breaks down in the tunnels or across the Meadows as often as NJT...LIRR can foul up everything, too, in the E. River tunnels so neither NJT nor Amtrak can get to or from Sunnyside Yard... I repeat this about Boardman: he is probably the most politically savvy president Amtrak has ever had because he came up through the ranks of commissioner of "transportation" or "buses" or whatever from municipal through state (NY) to FRA before coming to Amtrak. He probably knows how to deal with both sides of the aisle better than anyone so far. And he does know about moving people from here to there and back, know how to shuffle papers, etc, as good as any political appointee ever. He many not always make the best choices per Amtrak and train, nor, evidently, be the perfect boss. But his ability to wiggle through politics and political BS is great.

[wanswheel]

Joe Boardman is a Vietnam vet, USAF.

"I rode my first train I really remember going into the service, from Rome to Syracuse," Boardman said of his first rail experience at age 17. "Four years later, when I came back, they were bankrupt."

http://krtnradio.com/2014/07/12/amtrak-ceo-visits-raton/

[BaltACD]

Breakdowns (or accidents) afflict all forms of transportation that have narrowly construed routes.  Accidents and construction block interstates - and traffic backs up.  Airports have incidents - and traffic backs up.  Waterways have channel or port issues - and traffic backs up.  Pipelines have their issues (that we don't hear of until there is a leak) - and traffic backs up.  Railroads have incidents - and traffic backs up.

Failure to take corrective actions to known impediments to sustained successful operations is dancing with the devil - and the consequences of failure can be catastrophic.

[blue streak 1]

The following is about the Port Authority bus terminal.  One has to wonder if even all these improvements if PA bus will again be overloaded.  The 2 additional tunnels certainly would postpone any worse bus terminal if NJT would modify many bus line to get rail ? 

 

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/city-hall/2014/07/8549619/wheres-big-fix-port-authority-terminal