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Crandic 120

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Crandic 120
Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, January 11, 2014 12:28 PM

The Crandic lightweight that was in a photo-of-the day in the Classic Trains Forum is actually the ex-Indiana Railroad Highspeed and not one the more usual ex-C&LE "Red Devils."  Giveaway is the slight slant to the windsheald or front-window posts.   LVT also had one.  I think both have been preserved, one at Union, the other at Seashore?

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Posted by narig01 on Saturday, January 11, 2014 11:03 PM
Looks like. IRM and Seashore. Rio Vista also has an ex Indiana car 202 via Portland. Not quite the same as the other two.(I've run 202 at Rio Vista) .
Wikipedia shows about a dozen cars in museums ir with preservation groups and some more not listed. The article doesn't cite the source.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, January 12, 2014 9:36 AM

Is the car at Portland one of the High-speeds?  I thought only two survived scrapping.  But the South Shore bought at least two-of the medium-weight cars, at least the two RPO-bag-coach cars, one of which became their line car, and may still be in that role.  Indiana Railroad had two lighweight double-end cars that ran Marion - Bluffton or some other weak line that was cut early, then were repainted and used in Andeson city service along with the Birneys, and then possibly sold to Portland for interurban service there.   Pix of seen of the Portland operation indicate that.

Both high-speeds that I am certain did survive, survived because one ex-C&LE car on Crandic and one on LVT were wreck or fire damaged.   I think the LVT car, now at Seashore, was bought directly from the scrapper shortly after the end of Indiana Railroad regular service in January 1941.  The Crandic car was one of the two left for the Interstate Public Service Power Company to run the skelaton Indianapolis - Seymore service that survived until one of two met the line car in the tragic incident that ended this operation.   The Crandic car went to the beginngs of IRM, was stored on active North Shore tracks at North Chicago Junction, and even was used on a fantrip there. 

I think an ex-IRR Birney from Marion also survives somewhere.

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Posted by erikem on Sunday, January 12, 2014 12:56 PM

I remember seeing a C&LE high speed at Rio Vista Junction many years back.

- Erik

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:42 PM

They were high-speed cars.   But the nickname on the C&LE was "Red Devils" and on the IR "High-speeds."   Branford has an ex-Crandic C&LE car, being restored to Red Devil appearance..

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:57 PM

Seashore's LVT 1030 was the former Indiana RR 55, which was receiver Bowman Elder's private car (also available for charter) with parlor type seating.  Sometime in LVT ownership it lost its IRR cast trucks for C&LE-style archbars. CRANDIC 118 was built for C&LE.  LVT 1030 was also altered to some extent to match the LVT's former C&LE cars' rear profile.  Both cars have MU controls and train air, but the original IRR and C&LE couplers were removed by LVT and CR&IC.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, January 13, 2014 2:16 AM

My understancing ix that the C&LE cars were not mu and never ran in trains, only as single cars.  The Indiana cars often ran in trains.  120 was the IR car on Crandic.  If 118 was a C&LE car and now has train air and mu controls, these were added by Crandic.  The C&LE Cincinnati archbar trucks from the burned/wrecked car replaced the IR Standard steel drop-equalizer trucks in order to provide clearances for the standard LVT wood board insulation and third rail shoes (four) for operation oh the P&W from Norristown to 69th Street Upper Darby.  Both the C&LE cars and the Indiana car were modified with a rear train door to allow emegency evacuation on the Norristown Skukill River Bridge, which did not have side walkways.   (I think it does, now!)  No record of this evacuation every occuring.  Did not the LVT also convert LVT 1030 to a straight coach, and is that its condition at Seashore?  Or have they restored the  parlor seating?   Like C&LE, LVT never ran its 1000's in trains, only as single cars.  Some of their older equipment did continue to provide some service in two and three-car formations.  Including trolley-freight.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, January 13, 2014 12:09 PM

You are correct that C&LEs cars did not operate in MU.  They had MU controls but straight air brakes.  LVT kept the controls and modified the brakes. (I'm not sure what CR&IC did.  I haven't been in 118 in a number of years.  The only interior photo I could find (CR&IC 111) shows a train-air style brake handle ) C&LE 110-119 had GE PC-12 E-4 pneumatic cam controls with automatic acceleration, 120-129 had Westinghouse HLF (Hand acceleration, Line powered ,Field control).  All C&LE cars had WH M-33 brakes, with magnetic track brakes as well.

IRR 55 went to LVT with the parlor seats intact, which is the same way the car came to Seashore. All of The IRR high-speeds were equipped with Westinghouse HLF Unit Switch controls.  LVT kept the train air on 1030.  LVT 1030 has been operated in special serviceat Seashore several times in the last couple of years.  CR&IC 118 was in the shop over the summer getting some much needed metalwork done around the stairwell.

The PC-12 equipped cars tended to work better for LVT since the automatic acceleration prevented overcurrent situations.  P&Ws 700+ volt third rail led to a fair number of flashovers on LVT equipment.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, January 13, 2014 2:12 PM

I assure you there was a period on LVT when 1030 ran with all-coach seating.  Seashore must have requested the parlor seats returned before shipping to them.  This would be no problem, because either LVT kept the tables and chairs in storage or else used the furnture from the rear parlor section of the ex-C&LE cars.   I  never was inside 1030 at Seasore.   If the parlor seats are leather-covered, then they are certainly original IR.  If they are pastel-colored plush, then it  is likely but not definite that they are from the  ex-C&LE cars.   Not definite because IR and LVT may have recovered the parlor seats at one time or another.

My first ride on LVT's Lliberty Bell Limited was in the Spring of 1947, age 15.   I rode it at least yearly up to 1952.  On my first ride I also rode Easton Limited, but the particular trip was assigned a clunker instead of one of the Cincinnati curved-sides.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, January 13, 2014 2:59 PM

1030 operated for several years with the IRR seats intact, then LVT replaced them with coach type seating, but stored the original seats, which  Seashore acquired along with the car.  Unfortunately, LVT's scrapper had already sold the IRR cast trucks, so Seashore got a set of ex-C&LE trucks instead.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, January 14, 2014 6:30 AM

Regarding flashovers, fortunately I never experienced one personally while riding the Liberty Bell, on P&W tracks or anywhere else on LVT.   MY understanding was that it was not the higher voltage per se.  The insulation of all the electrical equipment was adequate for the 700V input.  It was due to moving the controller handle too fast and heating up the motors with more current than the field and armuture coils could handle, which degraded the insulation.  Fortunately, the operators I rode with observed restrictions.  Since the regular P&W schedules were all-stop, or all flag-stop, and their rush hour fastest trains also had stops (Ardmore Junction and Villa Nova on all runs), the non-stop 69th-Norristown LVT cars provided quite a treat, and it was on the P&W where thay made their best time.

I recounted much earlier how I used LVT (and PRR and PTC) going on age 17 from and to my NYC home for a college interview at Lehigh U. in Bethleham - was accepted but ended up at MIT.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, January 14, 2014 6:43 AM

daveklepper
It was due to moving the controller handle too fast and heating up the motors with more current than the field and armuture coils could handle, which degraded the insulation.

This was mainly a problem with the former C&LE 120-129 series cars (and 1030).  With HLF control the operator could "notch up" as fast as he wanted to.  The 110-119 cars with PC-12 controls had automatic acceleration control, and were unlikely to pull too much current.

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Posted by narig01 on Tuesday, January 14, 2014 8:48 PM
C&LE 111 which ended up at the Western Railway Museum was purchases by one Ken Frye at the end of CRANDIC passenger service. The story I was told was he planned at some point to open a restaurant and have the car move people to the restaurant from the parking lot.
I remember the car before restoration. The field taps had been disconnected to keep the speed down. It was still capable if accelerating to 70mph even on Rio Vista's then short piece of track. The roof had rotted away leaving an open patch that was referred to as the Rio Vista dome! This was all a long long long time ago.
The car has been restored to very nice appearance.

Thx IGN
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Posted by narig01 on Tuesday, January 14, 2014 8:51 PM
PS Ken Frye 's name had been written on the side of the car by the door. He retired from the US Air Force. And where his name was written progressively was written his rank from 1st Lt to LtCol.
Thx IGN
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Posted by calzeph on Monday, January 20, 2014 8:53 PM

The last I knew the Ohio Railway Museum had one. I got to ride in it 2 or 3 times as a kid in the mid-60s.

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