http://www.myajc.com/news/news/transportation/atlanta-streetcars-wait-time-prompts-concern/nXPxs/?icmp=ajc_internallink_textlink_apr2013_ajcstubtomyajc_launch
This occurred to them NOW???? Yeesh.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Better late than after it's built. Every 5-6 minutes should work.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimm Better late than after it's built. Every 5-6 minutes should work.
This sounds like the kind of "planning" that's taking place in New Orleans and probably many other cities. Bureaucrats who wouldn't be caught dead using public transit sit around thinking: "Wouldn't it be a cute idea to have a streetcar for the tourists to ride between this attraction and that one? We can get a lot of federal money to help pull it off."
The cost of building a streetcar line is so high that the only way I can see justifying it is if there is very high ridership on frequent headway. I'm not familiar with Atlanta, but is there currently bus service on the route of this line, and if so, how heavily is it used? Also, is it a route that can be expanded in the future? As much as I love streetcars, I don't see how you can justify building one unless you use it to replace buses on that route that are running packed one after another. Then, after you build it you use it as a trunk line and have buses feeding it along the way.
Looking back at what I wrote, I realize it may sound like I'm ranting against Atlanta planners, but I mainly have the New Orleans RTA in mind, though I suspect that this is the case in other cities. Practical transit service doesn't seem to enter into their thinking.
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"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
The Streetcar project's main goal is to revitalize the Auburn Ave business district that was wrecked by the construction of I75/85 years ago (Accidently on purpose, it appears....)
My sense is that streetcars, as opposed to buses, are helpful in revitalization, by generating excitement , not just basic transportation needs. In that sense, they may well justify and more than pay back the added capital expense in property and sales tax growth. But Auburn may be beyond the grave.
I've read a number of times (maybe it was also in the OP article) that developers feel more comfortable building along seemingly permanent trolley lines, as opposed to movable bus routes.
MidlandMikeI've read a number of times (maybe it was also in the OP article) that developers feel more comfortable building along seemingly permanent trolley lines, as opposed to movable bus routes.
I can well understand why. For several years I needed to visit my doctor each month and took a convenient bus that stopped steps from her office. When I came out I often saw other people waiting at the bus stop. One day out of the blue New Jersey Transit decided to abandon this segment of the route. There was no public hearing and no public input; only 10 days' notice and it was gone. I found an alternate route that I used although I now had a half hour walk to and from the bus stop.
With a streetcar line there is a better chance that this kind of harsh and arbitrary decision will not be made.
Yes, I've heard that argument many times, and there are reports that it does revitalize the neighborhood, but the primary goal of a transit authority should be to transport people. The money spent on building a streetcar line would buy a lot of buses and enable lowering of fares, thus attracting more riders. Cleaning up, landscaping, providing security (which usually comes as part of the new streetcar project) would help depressed areas tremendously. As much as I love streetcars, I can't believe I'm arguing against them, but their primary purpose is to move people.
I'm still happy whenever I see new lines being built.
Paul of Covington Yes, I've heard that argument many times, and there are reports that it does revitalize the neighborhood, but the primary goal of a transit authority should be to transport people. The money spent on building a streetcar line would buy a lot of buses and enable lowering of fares, thus attracting more riders. Cleaning up, landscaping, providing security (which usually comes as part of the new streetcar project) would help depressed areas tremendously. As much as I love streetcars, I can't believe I'm arguing against them, but their primary purpose is to move people. I'm still happy whenever I see new lines being built.
It might actually help Sweet Auburn in that regard. But, like you, I just have a hard time connecting the dots between streetcars as transportation and streetcars as economic development tools.
In the middle of the route, is Georgia State University, a very large university with a growing residental population. They are building dorms as fast as they can go. This line runs right through the campus, and could be useful for getting between the somewhat scattered buildings on campus.
But, not with 15 minute headways and $2.25 fares. Who would pay $2.25 to go three or four long blocks when headway = walking time?
Same thing goes for MARTA rail... When, oh, when are they going to use their fancy Breezecard system for zoned fares?
I don't know about that, in Toronto the TTC operates street cars all along the lakefront and some of the downtown core, it becomes part the landscape and is pretty darn useful too, for $3 you can go right across the city, and it has a smooth ride to boot.
Now Atlanta has to spend more money ! !
http://www.progressiverailroading.com/passenger_rail/news/MARTA-board-OKs-streetcar-contract-increase-to-59-million--36187
Paul of Covington the primary goal of a transit authority should be to transport people.
I agree with you, Paul. In fact, I could not agree more. And the cheapest way to provide public transportation is but buy a bus off the shelf, plop it down on a street and let it run along its route.
But once built a streetcar on a track is cheaper to operate than a bus. Over a period of time the extra cost will be recovered. I cannot imagine American public transportation without buses. But I do think there is a place for streetcars too.
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