I want to explore towns that had commuter rail but dont in order to look for old ROWS and stations. What buses out of Port Authrity should I ride?
New York, Susquehanna and Western. In Midland Park the Wortendyke Station is still standing. If you take a NJT Main or Bergen County line train get off at Ridgewood and go to the bus stop. Bus No. 752 will take you to Midland Park within walking distance of Wortendyke Station. If you get back on the same bus and go to Wyckoff there is a large shopping center on your right as you get into town. In that is another station from the same road. Today is it a shop and you can go into it.
If you prefer, there is a bus from Port Authority but I don't know the number.
The Mercer and Somerset is today an almost unknown railroad. It ran through Mercer Country to Somerset, New Jersey. It went bankrupt in the 19th century and the tracks were taken up. There is one remaining station in Hopewell Township near Pennington, NJ. To get there take an NEC train to Trenton. Go to the downtown bus stop on Clinton Street and take a Capitol Connection bus to State and Broad Streets. Change to but no. 602 and ride it to West Delaware Avenue at Route 31 and get off. You will see Pennington Quality Supermarket. Cross Route 31 and continue about a block. On the left side of the road is a real estate office, a 2 story red house. I think it is Widel but I'm not sure. On that property is another building which is the Pennington Station of the Mercer and Somerset Railroad. Right ahead of you on the right side of the street is the Hopewell Township Library; they have information about the railroad including the Great Frog War.
While you are there in Downtown Pennington (intersection of Main Street and West Delaware Avenue) you can walk to the Pennington Station of the Reading Railroad's West Trenton line. There is no longer any passenger service but there is freight service along the line.
There is another Reading station in Hopewell Township and it may be open so you can go inside of it. However, there is no public transportation to Hopewell Township.
For an inexpensive lunch Pennington Quality Market has excellent sandwiches. Inside the market is a coffee stand with tables and chairs. Or there are restaurants around.
There are no intercity buses to Trenton. You have to take the train to get there. By bus you could go to Princeton Palmer Square and change to a local 606 bus that would take you to Trenton but the train is simpler.
The Camden and Amboy wasn't exactly a commuter line but it was quite interesting. Go to Trenton. Cross Clinton Avenue and buy a Riverline ticket. Be sure to validate your ticket as NJT ticket inspectors will give you a $75 fine if they catch you with an unvalidated ticket. Get off the train at Bordentown Station. There is some interesting historical information in the station itself. Walk to the far side of the parking lot and you will see a large concrete PRR bumper block. Close by there are square stones set in the ground. These are original "ties" made at Ossining Prison for the Camden and Amboy in the 1830's. You can see part of the more modern rail line there too the the stone "ties" are what is important.
Buses won't cut the mustard...you might be just as satisfied with rail. To really explore rights of way and roadbeds you best have a least a car, SUV, or truck...maybe even a bike! Commuter trains are missing from the Northern RR of NJ; the CSX River LIne (nee, West Shor-NYC); the Erie Greenwood Lake Div. across the Meadows to Arlington and the connection with the Montclair-Boonton Line; the Erie,Caldwell branch from Great Notch to Roseland; the Greenwood Lake Div. from Mountain View north to Wanaque; the Lackawanna Boonton Line from Clifton to Towaco and Mt. View (now Route 80); the NYS&W commuter train were from Jersey City on the Erie to their own track west of the holes to Butler..don't know off hand if they went further west with commuters, though; the DL&W Rockaway Branch from Denville station through Rockaway to Dover Jct. (about 3 and a half miles west of Denville on the mainline); DL&W Sussex Branch from Sussex Br. jct to Branchville; the DL&W Old Road from Hackettstown to Washington...and really all the way to Phillipsburg..now the NS Washington Secondary; the CNJ right of way west from HIgh Bridge to Phillipsburg; the CNJ from Liberty State Park to Bayonne; the CNJ's Newark line is the same as the HBLRT from Liberty to end of track; CNJ from west side of Hackensack River Draw to Perth Amboy on the NY&LB and west to Aldene/Cranford; CNJ's Atlantic Highlands, etc. lines; PRR's Freehold Secondary and Jamesburg Secondary tracks. CSX line from Bound Brook to West Trenton former Reading teritory; . The Morristown and Erie once provided connecting and thruogh commuter service with the Erie from Morristown to Roseville to Jersey City, too. I am not sure if I missed any NYC commuter services, that's all I know or remember...But again...buses won't do you justice, you might have more fun and luck riding the existing train lines, or drive or bike it all. It is getting a little late in the season to be trying to find these lines, too. After the leaves leave the trees and before they return is the best time to see what you are looking for....otherwise it is all grown over and hidden...
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
Ride with Me Henry---It would be great to make a map on google to show what NJ had as far as commuter verses what they have now. It would show what could be in the future.
I also like visting towns that were former rail towns and it looks like NJ transit bus may be the only way to go. It would be great to have Bus numbers. I know liberty lines goes to Allentown
Just go to the NJT website and click on the bus schedules....but again, NJT rail might do you better or just as well. I take it you are in NYC. So choose a rail line and ride....give me your email address via message mail here and I'll include you in my emails about the trips we take...we start from Port Jervis or any station Hackettstown to Denville because we drive from Binghamton, NY for our day trips to who knows where...you can join us anywhere along the route...probably nothing now until mid May or early June...part of the idea is to see what used to be and where. There are maps...start with NJT, MNRR, and LIRR websites then go to your library, historical society, rail clubs and organizations, or railfans to find and check books and maps...many exist, no need for me or anybody else to make new ones....they are available. The histories of these railroads have maps; so do old timetables, topographical maps, even road maps. Your librarians will be glad to help guide you to the information..check hobby shops and old book stores, flea markets, antique shops, railroad shows, etc. Your description of what you are trying to accomplish is a little vague, so this is the best I can do for you...
----Henry, We have talked before on the phone as i met your freind in VT who is a weather fan and I live part time in Bing. NY.----now as far as what I am trying to do is ride every commuter railroad line out of NYC/Metro North and NJ transit and also hit towns via NJ transit bus that used to be served by commuter rail but arnt anymore like New Jersey Central. My purpose is to review towns and see places that the normal tourist who stays on the island nver gets to see. I spent a weekend in Chicago on a 5.00 weekend pass and rode every line that I could. (One only runs weekday rush hour). I am transit dependent and as far as exploring on bike NJ is the absolute worst when it comes to rails to trails or bike lines. DC and Chicago have miles of rails to trails that I could explore old lines like the Chicago Aurora and Elgin and the Metropolitin Branch in DC. I want to see towns that on NJ transit bus routes that covered those towns after the train left. I also noticed that just coming into NYC on PATH that there are old eletric lines with the poles up but no tracks under them so that once opon a time you had the Lehigh and the PRR and the Erie and NJ Central under wire. like where did those go? and how do you explore those lines without getting mugged or arrested....further more why is NJ so highway orented and hate peds and bikes...many of the major roads dont even have sidewalks in metro newark jersey city...
Lots of questions, but not all with answers...look for the Port of New York Authority maps which show all the lines, sidings and yards...produced yearly from the 30's though the fifties, maybe sixties. Hagstrom used to put.out some great maps. Old Official Guides would have maps for each of the railroads from the 60's back....also the old commuter lines that are no more would be there or in public timetables from any of the roads. On PATH, you would be seeing the PRR's line to Jersey City which was under wire as well as the last host of steam and diesel PRR trains from Exchange Place to Hudson tower. What looks like catenary towers over the Erie's Greenwood Lake line across the meadows were not for catenary but for power lines. I am not sure what you are looking for in these former commuter railroad towns...don't know what you expect to or want to find. Many of these towns have been without commuter trains for 50 or more years, so not much is left to see of the railroad...coming to mind is Caldwell for instance where there was a station, a yard, and a turntable for the Erie. Rockaway on the Lackawanna's original Morris & Essex main line from Denville to Dover has a station.. I choose these two because I know there are bus services to those two towns...Caldwell I think has a bus from Newark Broad St. and Rockaway a Morris Co. Bus or Lakeland. Getting up to Wanaque, Riverdale, Butler, etc, you'll have to check NJT and other bus schedules.
The Hudson-Bergen light rail offers excellent views of what you might be looking for. From Hoboken to Weehawken then through the former West Shore/O&W tunnel...the station on the east side of the tunnel is where the West Shore (NYC)-O&W terminal once was and the ride up from Hoboken is on the Erie's line to the United Fruit docks where bananas were unloaded. The line from Hoboken south crosses the properties which once were the terminals of the Erie, Pennsylvania, Lehigh Valley, and CNJ as well as follow the former lines west and south from those terminals. The line from Liberty Park to the West Side is on the CNJ alignment to Newark. Not knowing the specifics of what you want to see makes it difficult to tell you what of what you might see fits your needs. Many of the existing station stops are actually skeletons of what they used to be with the missing freight stations, creameries, factories, mills, etc. Again...what do you want to see. As far as riding every commuter line out of NY into NJ is quite easy from NYP or Hoboken with opportunities to ride two lines per day...(to Suffern and bus to Spring Valley or to Spring Valley and bus to Suffern; or west on the Montclair Boonton LIne to Denville or Dover then east on the Morristown LIne (there are two afternoon Boonton Line trains to Denville..gets there about 3:35 and 4:50, then bus to Rockaway, bus to Dover, train back to Hoboken via Morristown. Depending on so many things there are many ways to get a lot in or just take one station stop at a time...taking the train to a point then jumping to bus could be time conserving...lots of things can be done....but check the old maps and timetables to see what was and where.
If you get down to south Jersey, NJT ran the commuter rail operations on the old PRSL to Ocean City and Cape May towards the last. I think the old former PRSL (Reading) stations at 10th st. and 34th st. still are standing in Ocean City. Down the Cape May line the Tuckahoe tower is preserved and I think the station is too. Cape May seashore lines operates RDC's on a portion of that line, also. The PRR branch to Pemberton lost it's commuter service in 1969, but stations still stand at Merchantville, Maple Shade, Moorestown, (maybe West Moorestown also) Mt. Holly and Pemberton. If you venture south from Mt. Holly to Medford, along the right of way of the old Medford running track, you'll find a good size bridge over the Rancocas in Lumberton and the old West Jersey and Seashore station in Medford (it was a police station). I think you can get reasonably close to most of these locations by NJT bus lines. Happy hunting!
Over 10 years ago New Jersey Transit proposed the Monmouth Ocean Middlesex (MOM) route which would go into middle and south Jersey from South Brunswick to Lakewood. The plan is now pretty much forgotten but it could be revived. To see the rail line go to page 26 on this link:
http://www.njtransit.com/pdf/an_cp_mom_documents1.pdf
The Above quote was from the MARTZ bus website--- It seems that many of the stations that were served by the Laccawanna Railroad out of Hoboken are now served by MARTZ Bus-
http://martztrailways.com/fares.asp
Bonas Brodheadsville, PA $35.00 $66.50 Marshalls Creek, PA $35.00 $66.50 Mt. Pocono, PA $38.50 $73.25 Panther Valley, NJ $27.75 $52.75 Scranton, PA $46.50 $88.25 Snydersville, PA $35.00 $66.50 Stroudsburg Park & Ride, PA $35.00 $66.50 Stroudsburg/ Delaware Water Gap, PA $35.00 $66.50 Tobyhanna, PA $40.50 $77.00 Wilkes-Barre Terminal, PA
Actually none of the above would have qualified as commuter zone stations for DL&W but, except for Wilkes Barre and Snydersville, PA which were not on the DL&W and Panther Valley, NJ which was not on line either, all were stations but not necessarily stops on the line. They all have become commuter zone locations because of Route 80. The only passenger stops for the DL&W were at one time the Delaware Water Gap, Stroudsburg-E. Stroudsburg, Mt. Pocono, Tobyhanna and Scranton (and the Gap had not been a stop for many years when the DL&W and EL folded their tents). DL&W did have commuter service at one time to Phillipsburg before 1940 I believe and pulled back to Washington after that and to Netcong under EL and Conrail; NJT has returned it to Hackettstown (parallel to Panther Valley on Rt 80). The DL&W/EL also provided commuter service to Newton and Branchville until the milk and mail traffic was gone. While the DL&W's presence in the area in the early 20th Century allowed for North Jersey to grow into a suburban commuter zone for New York City, it was Route 80's construction in the 60's that did the rail service in while opening up Eastern PA to commuters.
As an aside, DL&W's train #8 getting into Hoboken just before 9AM was used by some as a commuter train, especially on Monday mornings. And #26 which got in Hoboken about 10:30AM would also be used by some. In both cases users were bankers and stockbrokers with later or more flexible hours.
The monthly ticket from Scranton to NYC is 600.00 a month. Compare that to 50.00 a month for my local bus pass, You better be a Lawyer or a Finance guy to ride at that rate....Now back in 1950 what would be the fare then and in todays inflaio related dollers? Checked air fare on United/US Air its 395.00 to newark
There is also a New Jersey Central Station here and Willkesbury that might have provided a more straight route
They may have provide a straighter route but they didn't provide a better, faster railroad nor the trains. There is a major change in live styles and society before and after 1960. But also check your railroad histories for how things operated...the DL&W, the LV, the CNJ, and the Erie all have many tomes written. Check, too, back issues of Trains and Railroad magazine, the railroad historical societies for each railroad and groups of railroads. And history books of the regions and states through local historical societies would also detail the differences of the time...Check your local library, the librarians are glad to help direct you to pertinent materials.
As I pointed out earlier, 1960 and Route 80 from the G.W. Bridge, across NJ and through the Poconos made major changes in society, lifestyles, and mental geography.
henry6There is a major change in live styles and society before and after 1960.
Would you care to expand on your statement, Henry. I know that American society has changed a lot since the end of WWII but I never before heard 1960 mentioned as a significant year for change.
John
It is quite evident if reading this discussion. Scranton was a world away from NYC and North Jersey for everyone and the Poconos was where you went to ski...and you probably went by train. The four lane routes into Scranton and through the Poconos brought the driving time from 5 or so hours to about 2 and a half and made the Pocono's a bedroom community with the overflow from North Jersey. Life is so different... Before 1960 you went shopping in the town you lived in for most things, maybe to a larger town where there were department stores; or better yet, you went to "The City" for purchases. By the late 50's towns developed shopping plazas and centers abandoning Main St. and quickly it was large plazas and malls that made downtowns ghost towns and all but obliterated towns as we knew them. The center of town was no longer the center of social life but rather go out the four lane in any direction for five or ten miles and you'll find dozens of malls. Everything was different from then on.
I've never been to Scranton or to that part of Pennsylvania, Henry, so I cannot comment on it.
I grew up in Warwick, Rhode Island which is a suburb of Providence. And yes I remember going into Providence with my Mom to buy clothes for school. But by 1950 there was a mall called Garden City and it was in the suburbs. It was so new my Dad drove us just to see it. We were amaze although today it would be considered a strip mall and a small one at that. But after that they came on Route 2 which is a main highway through the state and they are there now. And Providence, compared to what it once was, became a ghost town. All the department stores moved out to the suburbs. This was hardly unique; it happened everywhere. But it was all in the 50's.
And before the 50's were over the Interstate -- I-95 -- came through. It used to take 45 minutes to drive to Providence when there was no traffic. On I-95 it was and is 10 minutes. And when the 60's came things were pretty stable. I'd left home by then and was in DC for a few years. I would take the train home and get off and Providence was, well there was nothing left of the Providence where I grew up.
Then the 70's came and the 80's. In 1986 Amtrak abandoned the old Providence Union Station. One day I'm coming home for a visit and I see Providence Station. And the train isn't stopping. I couldn't figure it out. And then the train stopped at the new, much smaller station. I walked out and figured out how to get down to Kennedy Plaza to get my bus home. The Mayor, Buddy Cianci, had uncovered the Providence River that had been paved over for many blocks so not you could see it and actually canoe on it. And he started river fire which still goes on. Providence is in the process of reinventing itself. It has a lot of senior citizen housing and a new college (along with some older ones) and a lot of other rehabbed housing and some retail space. It is the capital of the state and the financial center of the state. But it still has a way to go before it is back to what it once was.
So That is what I'm coming from. I just don't see the year 1960 as significant. But perhaps it was for you.
It seems that I-80 is a straigter route perhaps MARTZ should run service to Andover NJ when the line is built instead of all the way into NYC
In truth, Martz is looking forward to rail service to Scranton. Over the years Martz has had to lengthen schedules into and out of Manhattan because of heavier traffic which means fewer miles per gallon of fuel, more fuel, more pay for drivers, less turnaround or rest time, more buses, etc. It is a costly operation for them and getting more so every year. And Lakeland Bus, I believe, has the franchise/charter for Warren and Sussex Counties to NYC. Trailways was not big in that part of the State and Greyhound no longer serves local routes (used to have stops in Hackettstown and Dover via Rt 46 from Columbia).
henry6 Martz is looking forward to rail service to Scranton.
Rail service to Scranton seems like one of those trains that is always coming but never comes.
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