Ga dot just released that it needs $85B in next 20 years to bring roads up to travelers needs. Where is the amounrt saved listed if pass rail made a part of this ??
2.2 billion a year for one mid-size not densely populated not mountainous no great river or lakes concentration, state's highways.
And Amtrak's funding for the lower 48 states is.....for all of them is.......
We who have sinned ain't better. Two miles from here is one of two bridges giving access to about 4,000 people and salvage logging (no mills), no industry and recreational mining only. The sin: its being painted,suicide-deterrent railings installed and earthquake reinforcing at a cost of $70,000,000.
Let figure.....70,000,000 dollars divided by 4000 people is.....
California, Foresthill Bridge serving the Foresthill Divide between the North- and Middle forks of the American River.....east of I-80 between Bowman and Auburn.
Our POLs refuse to raise Ga's 7.5 cents per gallon gasoline tax. Instead they want to use general tax revenues to supplement the less than 50% gas tax revenue that is needed. One thing is that we do have a sales tax on gasoline ( diesel unknow ) of 1% which is adjusted after every quarter based on average fuel cost. Cost yesterday regular $3.69.9 diesel $4.12.9. But sales tax goes into general funds. Smoke and mirrors.
blue streak 1 Ga dot just released that it needs $85B in next 20 years to bring roads up to travelers needs. Where is the amounrt saved listed if pass rail made a part of this ??
Or, if freight rail is used to divert some truck traffic....
(Political rant mode: "ON")
The GA DOT rarely thinks outside a very small box. And, the Nero has nothing on the legislature.
If you live here, then you know how the legislature goes out of it's way to avoid doing meaningful things, concentrating more on things that will make the folks back home "feel good" and don't cost anything. Gun laws and abortion laws are annual topics. This year's hot topic: Should kids under 21be allowed to carry guns? I suppose this is in reaction to muggings going on around the Georgia Tech campus and spate of smart phone snatch and grabs on the GSU campus. You could increase the police and campus security funding, but no, that would cost MONEY. So, instead, frat parties with guns. Oh, boy.
Then there is the er...train wreck... of T-SPLOST. After waiting two years, we get to vote on a penny sales tax to fund a list of transportation projects but together by very large committees - not generally transportation experts - that will fund things that A) already need to be funded anyway, like replacement commuter buses or B) are really economic development projects, like the Belt Line. Not that much overall improvement in mobility.
If we vote against it, we get nothing at all for at least another couple years. If we vote for it, we get very little bang for our buck. Great.
The state has spend a small fortune 4-laning state highways through half-dead towns in the name of economic development. Has it worked? No. The mill towns still died - but they have great roads!
We spent eight years with a governor who mostly took naps. He once woke up and prayed for rain during a drought. The current guy is an improvement, but that's not saying much.
(Political rant mode: "OFF")
There are a lot of things that could be done that would help. Getting a commuter rail network in Atlanta is an easy one and would fit the current low density suburban housing in the region. The existing rail lines are there and could be fairly easily expanded. Untangling the lines in the city might be tricky, though. Getting Atlanta connected to Charlotte by rail would be a good thing to pursue, too. Given the curvature of the existing line, it would be a good place for Talgo equipment. Is WI having a sale?
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Don't forget lets save the taxpayers some money. Re guns on campus, I can see a bunch of frat boys hanging on the porch drinking with guns and choosing their . . .
The one thing I do remember was when I lived in Georgia was that it was much easier to get the local state assemblyman & senator to fund traffic lites and reconstruction of intersections(they were all state routes). T
The good ole boy network works wonders.
As for diesel fuel taxes one of the lowest in the country at .12 cents a gallon.
Just to give you an idea of politics. The Ga DOT bought 2 or 3 portable asphault plants. Mainly because it was cheaper than buying from outside vendors. The rock that went into the plant was all from recycled roadway material(usually gotten from the site they were reconstructing) . Well then these same vendors that were overcharging the state complained about unfair competition. All because DOT realized it was cheaper. Oh yes they were also providing asphalt to local cities and counties as well. I do not know how that complaint ended.
Thx IGN
Another HSR study for Georgia has been released. Note the negative comments following the report. Atlanta - Savannah - Augusta / Macon - Atlanta /?? It seems that Atl - Jax passengers would be very few./?
Do not know if Ga Dot did this study but I find it interesting that a Jacksonville newspaper published this report.
http://jacksonville.com/news/georgia/2012-06-20/story/high-speed-rail-atlanta-jacksonville-feasible-study-says
Georgia's dream map
State rail plan:
http://www.dot.state.ga.us/travelingingeorgia/rail/Documents/StateRailPlan2009.pdf
Due to computer problems here is the Georgia dream map;
http://www.dot.state.ga.us/travelingingeorgia/rail/Documents/PassengerRailMap.pdf
Hopefully it will be centered on trying to get truck traffic off the highways and onto the rails. Putting passenger trains on already clogged freight lines will not work. The best passenger train in the metro-Atlanta area would be a monorail system linking the major shopping mall areas to the Atlanta airport. Successful high speed intercity passenger train service would involve a dedicated line...something we don't have that kind of money for right now.
They might as well have given some 5 year olds some crayons as spend any time making a "real" map. There is no money. There will be no money. Nothing is going to happen. The legislature would rather watch the state crumble as figure out how to pay for anything - even just maintaining existing roads. They couldn't even figure out a plan to create an agency to coordinate transit in Atlanta. Mind you, this has nothing to do with actually building any transit, just creating an oversight board. They couldn't even do that.
There is no hope.
From 1998 to 2001 I lived in the Atlanta area, Back then all the conversation about HSR was on one specific corridor: Atlanta to Chattanooga,Tn.
The discussion about how to get there involved everything from Mag-Lev to a A "Bullet Train" style of operation. The Row put forward was mentioned as more or less updating (for speed) the CSX ( old W&A ROW) to putting it up the median of I-75. Lots were written in the Atlanta Paper (The AJC). Even caught a couple of blurbs on the local TV stations. I knew some in the RR business and with the STATE DOT of Ga. Those guys were pretty certain that it was going to be just a news media event and then forgotten.
Now this more recent conversation. Now HSR has a whole new set of potential corridors as witnessed in the map and PDF provided by previous posters. The Atlanta to Chattanooga does not even appear. I-75 has been built up to additional lanes and the median ROW is non-existent now as a place for a RR ROW. No doubt there is a want, need and desire for traffic between Florida and points North and Northeast. A few minutes on I-75 or even on I-95 over on the East side of Georgia and those Points North are a testament to that need.
My seat of the pants guess would be that an IntraState (in Georgia) HSR would be problematic. It would probably HAVE to have an Origin/Destination down about Orlando or Miami and another Origin and Destination somewhere up the I-81 Corridor to attract enough traffic to have a financial chance of success. To just build a Middle without controls as to the ends outside of the State of Georgia would be a financial and practical boondoggle.
I don't see NS or CSX or anybody else giving up their ROW for any amount of money to sanction an HSR project in Georgia on their properties.
Atlanta to Chatt is still being studied, supposedly all new alignment and maglev is out. Conventional HrSR (90-110 mph) has been studied between Charlotte and Atlanta and Atlanta to Jax via Macon and Brunswick along NS's ROW. The Atlanta to Jax looked doable. The route has a good alignment and lots of places for 110 mph running, but Atlanta to Charlotte would take quite a bit of new alignment. Too many 3 degree curves. NS's policy it 90 mph max on their tracks and must be made whole for capacity. CSX's is similar.
The state gets dribs and drabs of money for studying these things, but there is never a penny to do anything but study.
Don (oltmannd) wrote the following[in part]:
"...The state gets dribs and drabs of money for studying these things, but there is never a penny to do anything but study..."
Sadly, That is exactly the problem. The Feds dole out the monies for 'Studies' and the idea is virtually studied to death. After a period of time what was originally a very potentially good idea, looses its meaning and direction in a sea of bureaucratic wallowing around. (Another example is the pickle that AMTRAK has been in form virtually the git-go. )
Georgia as well as Atlanta Regional Mass Transit (MARTA)has long been a local jurisdictional, political football. It was a pretty good idea and made lots of sense when conceived, but parochial politics came into play and the decision was made early on to allow some counties to either-opt in, or opt-out.
The line out to the Airport is a fair example, and the political (NIMBY) wrangling crippled the original urban transportation plan; caused the road net to be at first underbuilt then expanded to increase the capacity, til all the ROW's were overpowered. Now land for area transportation is so expensive to be almost prohibitive. I wished many time that we had some decent public transportation when I lived South of Atlanta, back then, my little short commute took, on a good day almost an hour,one-way, and if there was any kind of accident, or construction, it went up exponentially. The folks that live around Hotlanta know what i'm saying, the rest may or may not care. But I feel better, after my venting.
samfp1943 I don't see NS or CSX or anybody else giving up their ROW for any amount of money to sanction an HSR project in Georgia on their properties.
That sort of intransigence could lead to a similar end as a farmer or other property owner opposed to an Interstate highway: eminent domain.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
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