This is great news.
http://www.shore-line.org/trolleyville_update2.html
Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has.
This is great news. The steel curved side cars were the last interurban cars built in the USA ---not counting the South Shore, of course, which is still an interurban as long as it runs in the street in Michigan City.
I heard there's a chance they might run before the end of this season.
Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...' Henry V.
The 1945 steel CA&E cars were the last STANDARD interurban cars built in the US, but not the last interurban cars. That distinction goes to the streamline cars built for the Illinois Terminal RR in 1949 by St. Louis Car Company (the same company that built the 1945 CA&E cars). The IT streamliners were an ill advised investment which were removed from service before the CA&E cars. With respect to the1980's vintage South Shore cars, there's an entirely separate issue as to "what is an interurban". Street running or not I think it's safe to say that a railroad which handles unit coal trains would not have been considered an "interurban" either in the 1930's or now.
Sorry! The Indiana Railroad was certainly an interurban. And they handled coal trains. Both in their own gondolas and in regular railroad hopper cars interchanged with steam railroads. The South Shore was an Interurban and still is an interuruban. I might concede defeat if its passenger service was entirely by locomotive hauled (and pushed) trains, but they are all mu cars. Double deck mu's don't make a difference, plenty of UK double deck trams, including one interurban tram line, the Landudnow adnd Colwin Bay.
By any definition, an electric railroad that handled heavy conventional freight traffic was not an "interurban". The South Shore may once have been an interurban, but it definitely is not an interurban today, and hasn't been for some time.
Falcon,
I have to agree with Dave. I saw both long unit coal drags on the CNS&M as well as long interchange freights out of the Mundelein Branch and needless to say, I think your rather bizarre definition would proclaim The North Shore Line, a non interurban. You say the IT cars were the last interurban cars built and then by your own definition contradict yourself by saying the IT was not an interurban as it served many coal mines for some time...I think you are parsing on some arbitrary definition. Bill Middleton was wrong? I think not..I think somehow you are confusing a streetcar line with an interurban as your definition is a personal one, I have never read any such demarcation before.
The PE, the IT, the South Shore, the CNS&M, the CA&E, the IRR, the C&LE, the P&N, etc...all moved unit freight..cattle, coal, grain, auto parts, etc and by your definition, none of them were interurbans? You are certainly entitled to your definition but to infer ("by any definition") it's some sort of measuring stick is simply silly and obtuse..at least from the standard definition.
The Chicago Lake Shore and South Shore interurban was bought by Samual Insull who alsobought the North Shore and CA&E interurbans, upgraded the CLS&SB to heavy freight standards, renames it to CSS&SB. This upgrade was an important part to the South Shore's survivability. It has historically always been an interurban, connects between many towns with passenger stops just under a 90 mile run, there is no other line like this today in the US existing. The administration may be taking a more commuter concept status like the Metra and RTA is, but being an interurban is stuck forever.
North Shore, CA&E, other interurbans all handled freight as well doesn't remove them from an interurban status.
Actually, the definition of an "interurban" I was describing wasn't my personal definition. It's the Interstate Commerce Commission's definition, which is pretty authoritative. The ICC used it for determining whether particular electric railroads were subject various provisions of the Interstate Commerce Act which excluded "interurban" railroads (such as line construction and abandonment, among other things). The type of passenger equipment operated wasn't relevant to the ICC - a railroad could use interurban style passenger equipment, but still wouldn't be considered an "interurban" by the ICC if it had heavy carload freight service. A similar standard applied to the Railroad Retirement Act and the Railroad Labor Act.
You are correct that the North Shore, South Shore, Illinois Terminal and PE in their later years (among others) wouldn't be considered "interurbans" under this definition, and they weren't. For example, when the North Shore was abandoned, the ICC was the agency that ultimately approved the abandonment, which it could not have done had North Shore been an "interurban" (the ICC had no jurisdiction over "interurban" abandonments). The "interurban" question was actually an issue in the NSL abandonment, and the courts agreed with the ICC's conclusion that NSL wasn't an "interurban". The Piedmont & Northern (I presume that's the "P&N" mentioned in your note) was actually determined to be a general system railroad quite early, which is why it was never able to close the gap in its lines (since it wasn't an "interurban", ICC entry regulation applied to the extension, and the ICC refused to approve it).
There's actually an interesting case currently before the STB involving the "interurban railroad" exception to STB/ICC jurisdiction. It involves a proposed high speed electric railroad called "DesertXpress", which wouldn't have any carload freight service. For various reasons, DesertXpress wants to be subject to STB jurisdiction. The opponents are claiming that DeserXpress isn't subject to STB jurisdiction because it is an "interurban" under ICC precedent. The case was just the subject of an oral argument before the Board.
Still, if you're talking about interurban type equipment, the NS, IT and CA&E were definitely operating this type of equipment. So, it's correct to say that the CA&E and IT cars were the last interurban cars constructed. The modern South Shore cars, on the other hand, are pretty much indistinguishable from main line electric suburban equipment.
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