I Heart NJT?

[al-in-chgo]

On a trip back east this past fall, my partner and I were really impressed with what NJT could do.  (We also liked SEPTA, don't get me wrong). 

NJT gave us a wonderful variety of riding experiences, such as a diesel-electrict LRT, a bilev (Breda and "Comet VI" I think) that was smooth as silk, and a trip from Newark/Broad way out to Gladstone, where the wire poles are still made of wood! 

Their service to and from Newark/Penn and NYC/Penn was flawless as well.  

For those of you who ride NJT regularly, esp. you Jerseyites who have to support the agency with taxes and thru political decisions, I'm curious to get your input.  I do understand that the system was put together from a complicated welter of failed Conrail-era commuter lines, so those of you on scene for the past 30 or 40 years have probably seen all kinds of changes.

Even today, though, from what I've heard, many lines are not electrified and probably not financially feasibly electrified, and some tunnel restrictions prohibit most bi-lev, though access to NYC/Penn seems established if I am processing what I've been reading on these boards directly. 

I'd just like your opinion and comment about the system.  I intend to return to the NYC/Newark area and do some LIRR and maybe Metro-North riding, but my heart is still with NJT.

Places to fan and photo are also welcome; I understand NJT is the rare exception to the norm in that it doesn't treat railfans like potential terrorists. 

Also, I find the NJT website quite easy to use, and the publicity people were very nice about sending me paper-based items; but I was disappointed to learn that the NJT souvenir shop in Newark/Penn is no more.

So pretty much anything you'd like to say pro or con is fine, and if somebody has a suggestion for "flair" NJT items like lapel or hat pins, let me know.  I have already tried eBay BTW.

Hope to hear from you soon!

Your friend, Al Smalling

 

[MP57313]

Places to fan and photo are also welcome; I understand NJT is the rare exception to the norm in that it doesn't treat railfans like potential terrorists. 

Al, I'm not a local, but I'll respond anyway...a few years ago NJT did in fact have a ban on photography w/o permission.  I tried to get permission via email, but no such luck [I wasn't turned down, just could not get a response].  Instead, I exercised my civil rights and took a few pics anyway.

I rode NJT round-trip Philly-Atlantic City around '03. $6.60 each way - how can you beat that?  The trip was relatively fast but not that well patronized.  This route was initially re-established as an Amtrak route - in the 80s I think - but patronage lagged so Amtrak cut the route.  It was then added to NJT's network, IIRC. The Atlantic City route is not very scenic, but the trackage in the Philly/Camden area is an adventure where rail routes have clearly declined in importance. 

[daveklepper]

As an ex-New Yorker who rode NJT for many years as well as predicessor companies, for example for a while I reverse commuted from a Manhattan apartment via PATH, NJT, and Summit and New Providence local bus, to a job in Murrey Hill, NJ, I think NJT is one of the best run USA transit systems.  I give them high marks.

I do beleive they should have stuck with mu's for electric operation rather than push pull with locomotives, and possibly just saved money by motor-trailer combinations instead of all motor.  But that is relatively minor compared to the great job they generally do.

[blue streak 1]

Agree on NJ trsansit. SEPTA = well its ex PRR routes are great. I've always felt the Reading had to build their lines on the cheap so they tend to have a lots of slow curvers with some exceptions. SEPTA of course could never reengineer this trackage to the speed standards of other commuter agencys around the country. Makes their operating costs go up. This could provide great pictures from a train.

[al-in-chgo]

Agree on NJ trsansit. SEPTA = well its ex PRR routes are great. I've always felt the Reading had to build their lines on the cheap so they tend to have a lots of slow curvers with some exceptions. SEPTA of course could never reengineer this trackage to the speed standards of other commuter agencys around the country. Makes their operating costs go up. This could provide great pictures from a train.

I found out that the SEPTA commuter route we took from Center City Philadelphia up to Norristown (PA) was exx-Reading.  Actually I thought the ride was pretty good on that line.  I am told those enormous power stanchions or towers that straddled the tracks on that route were characteristic of the Reading.  I am presuming the power towers were there to (ultimately) furnish power to the catenary.  They are impressive, but I wonder if in some way that saved the Reading money when they were building or electrifying that line. 

Big electric transmission towers usually are energized well beyond the needs of the consumer's end use in residential situations; they "step down"  kilovolts into our North American residential standard of 110 AC (220 also in some apps). This enormous "overcharge" of electricity is necessary at least in part because high-tension wires, which are generally not insulated, "leak" .  I am wondering whether Reading's approach required fewer rectifiers or "boosting" stations as compared to conventional hi-quality cat like Washington - Penn Station, perhaps?  Or in some way was cheaper to operate, if not to build, the line and that factored into it? Just wondering. FWIW the towers are very close together, a couple of hundred yards or so.  I've never seen "TVA"-type (big huge) commercial transmission towers spaced anywhere near so closely, so perhaps if the EE's can reduce the leakage, at the hi-tension-wire level, ultimately less power (and less fuel) is necessary to zing along the big lines?    

Please treat me kindly.  I barely know my AC from my DC in terms of electrical engineering. 

- a.s.

 

 

[Paul Stanton]

Hi Al!

There have been some new developments since you were here last. The renovations to the Trenton Train Station are now complete. There is an interesting article in the Trenton Times about development near the train station.

 http://www.nj.com/news/times/index.ssf?/base/news-4/1211688334191390.xml&coll=5

 The ridership levels on the River Line from Camden to Trenton are approaching the numbers that were originaly quoted when the line was concieved. Of course, there is still the talk of expanding service on the River Line with a Capital district loop and an extension of the southern section to serve additional communities.

NJT completed a storage facility across the Delaware from Trenton  in Morrisville, Pennsylvania. It occupies a portion of the old freight yard there. There is no direct train service there, much to the disappointment to Pennsylvania commuters who would like to avoid Trenton.

There is talk of extending service to the Freehold area in Monmouth County. There has been a tremendous population growth in that area and now they want low cost transit.

When you come back, try the NJT Long Branch service. It serves quite a few coastal communities.

 Paul

[oltmannd]

Places to fan and photo are also welcome; I understand NJT is the rare exception to the norm in that it doesn't treat railfans like potential terrorists. 

Al, I'm not a local, but I'll respond anyway...a few years ago NJT did in fact have a ban on photography w/o permission.  I tried to get permission via email, but no such luck [I wasn't turned down, just could not get a response].  Instead, I exercised my civil rights and took a few pics anyway.

I rode NJT round-trip Philly-Atlantic City around '03. $6.60 each way - how can you beat that?  The trip was relatively fast but not that well patronized.  This route was initially re-established as an Amtrak route - in the 80s I think - but patronage lagged so Amtrak cut the route.  It was then added to NJT's network, IIRC. The Atlantic City route is not very scenic, but the trackage in the Philly/Camden area is an adventure where rail routes have clearly declined in importance. 

The NJT AC line does pretty well - tho' not by North Jersey standards.  Ridership is 1.3M per year or about 150 per train.  It's not typical commuter service although many riders are casino workers.  There is no weekday, morning or afternoon peak to the service.  Demand is fairly flat all day long, weekday and weekend.

If it were an Amtrak corridor, it would place just behind Calilfornia's "Capital Corridor" in ridership.

[gardendance]

[

Demand is fairly flat all day long, weekday and weekend.

That can be a good thing. The bane of many systems, not just public transit, is tremendous peak demand and little off peak use. Having consistent demand scattered throughout the day, every 60 to 90 minutes from 5:30am to 1am every day, can be efficient resource use.

[JT22CW]

NJT's gone mad of late.  We're getting close to $4/gallon gas and they are cutting trains; at first on the Morristown Line, and later on the Newark Division.  The Jersey Shore?  Get this:  For the first time in history, no weekend express trains during the summer; all trains will be locals to Long Branch, and if you want to go further south, you must transfer to the diesel shuttle to Bay Head.  (Don't tell me that's going to be time-competitive with the GSP, now.)  Kris Kolluri and Richard Sarles appear to be located well outside reality.

[daveklepper]

I the face of rising costs, the choices were to cut service or increase fares.

[JT22CW]

You know this for sure?

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

You know this for sure?

Even transit agencies have to live within their budgets.  Weekend expresses are a luxury found on very few suburban operations, so don't complain too loudly.

[daveklepper]

As noted above, yes I know it for sure.   Increase riding that is subsidized can mean increased costs unless economies of scale are very carefully handled.   All transit systems, like the freight railroad, are faced with increasing fuel and electricity costs, and often legislators are not quick enough to respond to the need for additional operating funds.   California, Connecticut, and NY may be exceptions to that statement.

[JT22CW]

You know this for sure?

Even transit agencies have to live within their budgets.  Weekend expresses are a luxury found on very few suburban operations, so don't complain too loudly.

What weekend expresses?  NJT had very few of those, especially compared to LIRR and MTA.  When NJT started up, they had none.  That's not what NJT cut, either.

What does that have to do with NJT's recent mad dash in the capital spending department?  You trying to tell me that buying new, untried, untested, guinea-pig-experimental equipment is more important than actually running more trains so that people can get around during these days of $4/gallon gasoline?

As noted above, yes I know it for sure. Increase riding that is subsidized can mean increased costs unless economies of scale are very carefully handled. All transit systems, like the freight railroad, are faced with increasing fuel and electricity costs, and often legislators are not quick enough to respond to the need for additional operating funds. California, Connecticut, and NY may be exceptions to that statement

Like I said above, what does that have to do with what NJT is doing?  Absolutely nothing at all, in fact.  How is concentrating on THE Tunnel, going crazy buying hundreds of new electric locomotives, EMUs, "dual-power locomotives" and multi-level cars (never mind having no plans for expanding electrification) an example of "carefully handling economies of scale"?  Hoboken Terminal is not falling into the Hudson River.  There's no excuse for cutting service at all while spending into oblivion.  LIRR and Metro-North aren't falling over themselves trying to get trains from their diesel territories into Manhattan like NJT is (Metro-North's majority service on the dual-mode end is on the Hudson Line to Poughkeepsie, but they have GCT all to themselves; LIRR isn't going crazy trying to get more dual-mode operations into Manhattan either).