I know all the oldest ex-C&NW gallery cars have been sold or scrapped, but what about ealiest (1951-1952) Budd-built stainless-steel Burlington cars?
Hi Dave -
Oldest of the ex-Q gallery cars were replaced by the most recent order of Metra gallery cars (6000-series coaches and 8500-series cab cars). I think lowest numbered of the ex-Q cars still running is around 740 or so. Federated Railways (owner of the former AA line north out of Ann Arbor) bought a number of the ex-Q gallery cars. Hope this helps! Art
Hi Dave - follow-on orders of CB&Q gallery cars were delivered in 1953 (15 cars), 1955 (5 cars) and 1957 (forget the quantity right now). As of a year or so ago, there were still 1953-built cars running. These cars were showing up in Southwest Service (ex-Wabash) consists, as well as continuing to run on the BNSF service. Hope that helps! Art
daveklepper wrote:Thanks! Budd built them well. 55 years old and still in service!
Were those cars for sure built by Budd and not Pullman-Standard? IIRC the CNW's original cars were built by Pullman-Standard. - a.s.
passengerfan wrote:Al when I get some time tomorrow I will do some double checking but I believe St Louis car buit the first C&NW Gallery cars the second order for C&NW came from P/S. The CB&Q ordered the first Gallery cars from Budd for Chicago - Aurora service.
1. Thanks; catch you later!
2. I also have some vague notion from something I read years ago that one of these carmakers was granted a basic patent ca. 1953-54. Not for the two-level coach concept, which had been in service for some years already, but for putting a big door in the middle and thus sparing the passengers the necessity of queing up and going thru some vestibule to an and-of-coach door (of which there are none IIRC).
The thread lists the CB&Q cars and as far as I can remember I never saw anything but Budd commuter cars on the Racetrack while the CB&Q and BN ran the place. I note also that the oldest Budd cars have been sold for reuse. And then, of course, there are both the Canadian run by VIA and New York's R-32's subway cars, which still amaze by their reliability compared to some of the neward cars, and newer cars (IRT R-33's and R-36's) have been scrapped or "reefed."
Correction: In addition to the Budd gallery cars, the "Q" for a time ran converted standard midium-heavyweight four-wheel-trucked coaches for suburban service, and in the post-WWII era they had head-end power, air-conditioning, and were painted green and tan with yellow or cream trim. Also initially, head-end power was supplied by generator cars, converted from older arch-roof plain Jane suburban cars, similar to what the Northwestern used before its gallry cars took over (also the NYC in Putnam and Boston suburban service). The E-units used back in those days were in a pool with the long distance trains and were still equipped for steam heating. Later, after all the non-streamlined equipment was sold or scrapped, the Q did buy some surplus single-level C&NW long-distance coaches, Pullman or ACF, not stainless steel but painted so by the Q, and occasionally these would also show up in suburban service.
Push-pull operation with stainless-steel cab-cars and conversion of E-units to supply head-end power was done by the Q and BN and did not wait until METRA. I think Budd was still in business at this time and built the cab-cars.
When I first moved to the area in 1980, Metra was already in effect, IIRC, but the trains running the three old CNW suburban lines were mostly still in CNW yellow and green livery. This gradually gave way to a Metra scheme of mostly white with neutral red banding (at the level of the windows IIRC), and neutral tan band (down the coach body).
IIRC most if not all of those slabsiders were delivered by Pullman-Standard for the CNW. When Metra had been in for a number of years the slabsiders were slowly supplanted by the (corrugaged) streamlined coaches of today. I'm not sure who delivered them, but they look and act a lot like the Metra coaches running on the BNSF Racetrack today. - a. s.
Hi Dave - the CNW St. Louis-built gallery cars did run behind steam. Have a shot of one of the re-numbered Pacifics pulling a train at Clybourn which includes both gallery cars and single-deck cars in the train.
Al-in-Chgo mentioned the Pullman-built cars, and the Rock received some cars from Pullman (I know there were cab cars in that order, but I believe there were also coaches). They were delivered around the time the Rock had adopted that brighter red and yellow scheme. Stood out very nicely when pulled by a matching locomotive! Under Metra, those ex-RI Pullman gallery cars were transferred to the ex-CNW lines (I recall they received numbers in the 7880-series). The side window design was converted to the same style as that used on the more numerous ex-CNW cars at that time, as well. That reduced the parts/maintenance burden a bit.
Have a great weekend! Art
I assume the Pacifics were renumbered because they were equipped with much larger generators to provide more head end power, air condtioning and heat as well as light.
The Q did not modify any steam locomotives but used generator cars while there were any steam locomotives in suburban service (beyond the initial modification years earlier to probide current for lighting) and for some time afterward.
G' evening, all,
I rode the C&NW daily 7:21-am in and the 5:41pm-out between 1970 and 1978 (northwest line to Park Ridge) and ...
I saw P/S plates on the double deckers. I do think I recall Budd plates, but only on a single level "Bankers-Express Car" that ran form Crystal Lake and Barrington, and the sister coach that ran the North Line to Glenco-Kennelworth and beyond.
THUS, my corrolary question, what became of those single level coaches? Were they indded Budd, or were they also P/S-?
hadrian wrote: G' evening, all,I rode the C&NW daily 7:21-am in and the 5:41pm-out between 1970 and 1978 (northwest line to Park Ridge) and ...I saw P/S plates on the double deckers. I do think I recall Budd plates, but only on a single level "Bankers-Express Car" that ran form Crystal Lake and Barrington, and the sister coach that ran the North Line to Glenco-Kennelworth and beyond.THUS, my corrolary question, what became of those single level coaches? Were they indded Budd, or were they also P/S-?
I don't know, but I do recall this exact topic had arisen about the time I started making postings on these threads ca. 2001 if not earlier. I remember myself seeing the private car(s) well. IIRC the riders had to pay a CNW fare (possibly extra fare along Pullman-parlor car lines); and the car was owned by the RR. The insider stuff, like who gets to ride, was worked by a country-club type arrangement with all the recommendations, initiations, and blackballing -- that kind of stuff. And 'tweren't cheap. a. s.
Right here, Transit, is really the appropriate thread, so hopefully someone will happen by with the 4-1-1.
But if this thread dies, you might consider trying TRAINS: PASSENGER, or CLASSIC TRAINS.
I never saw any of the Chicago area private club commuter cars. However, I can note that the New Haven ran some out of Grand Central Terminal and so did the NYC. For a while the two New Haven cars were the ex-Merchants Limited parlor-buffet-observation cars, with end doors and diaphram added for mid-train, use done earlier when coaches were added to the Merchants (formerlly all-parlor), and the cars used for a short-time mid-train on the Yankee Clipper.
The New Haven also had some "washboard" mu cars with normal motors and controls with a different window layout in private club commuter service, and so did the Central in the flat-side 1000-series.
The single-deck cars were Pullmans, 1949 build date if I remember right. The last two cars of this type in service (553 and 555) were running on a North Line train, and the poster is right that the club members paid extra for the privilege of having this car maintained and operated. I believe 553 was the last of these to operate.
There were a few of the 7600s (RTA and Metra number-series assigned to the St. Louis-built ex-CNW gallery cars) that were equipped to sell drinks, etc. When in this service the center doors were inoperable/blocked to create the racks/counter space needed and the cars were renumbered into the 7900s. With the retirement of the St. Louies that sort of service on the UP lines came to an end. Some Budds were also equipped in a similar manner to sell drinks, etc. on the Milwaukee Lines. Around the time Metro-North was planning on ending its club car service, Metra also indicated these operations would come to an end.
Hope this helps! Art
artpeterson wrote:Dave saw your comment about the 5100-series NH "Washboard" parlor cars. Nice looking cars with the picture windows, especially when compared to the smaller side windows used on the "Washboard" coaches. The Lackawanna (and later EL) also had those few MU parlor cars in service on their electrified lines (I recall those cars being in the 3450-series numbers). Art
I find all this very interesting and am going to start a new thread in TRANSIT along the lines of "who owned whose parlor cars."
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