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septa question

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  • From: Willow Grove near NS tracks
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septa question
Posted by paulstecyna21 on Sunday, March 9, 2008 8:30 PM
is septa a class 1, 2, or 3 railroad?
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Posted by JT22CW on Sunday, March 9, 2008 8:58 PM
SEPTA per se is not a railroad.  They operate subway trains, trolleys and buses (plus the unique Route 100/Philadelphia & Western) as well as regional rail, which uses the reporting marks SEPA and SPAX (the latter for work trains).  AAR classes usually apply to freight haulers, with the exception of Amtrak, one of the seven Class I railroads in the USA (a Class I railroad is one that generates revenue of $319 million per year or greater).
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Posted by paulstecyna21 on Sunday, March 9, 2008 9:11 PM
i know that i mean more the railroad part because i am not sure.
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Posted by al-in-chgo on Thursday, April 3, 2008 4:23 PM

 paulstecyna21 wrote:
i know that i mean more the railroad part because i am not sure.

Do you mean, does SEPTA own its own ROW over all or most of its routes? 

And if not, is the host railroad NS?  (I'm just inferring out of PRR > Conrail > NS for the most part.)   -  a. s.

 

al-in-chgo
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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, April 4, 2008 3:39 AM

A "Transit or Commuter Authority" is a separate classification that does not come under the Class I, II, or II definitions.   I don't know of any that has real "profits" as such.  All are subsidized by one form of government or another.

SEPTA has about seven routes over its own tracks (including the branch to the airport), over Amtrak-owned tracks (NE to Trenton, SW to Newark DL, and W past Paoli to Downingtown and ?Thornberg?), and possibly still over some CSX or NS-owned tracks, but has attempted to buy all the latter two and may have succeeded by now.  It owns two routes to Chestnut Hill, one ex-PRR and one ex-Reading, both having good electric service.

It also operated heavy rapid transit in two gauges and two wide gauge streetcar networks, the remains of the vast PTC city system, now the City Division, based on the Market Street trolley subway that provides local service with the Frankford-Upper Darby heavy rapid transit on the center express tracks, and the suburban Red Arrow Divison, with two of the former four lines left running from the Upper Darby rapid transit terminal.  The Red Arrow division also includes the Norristown high-speed line, third rail, high-platform, but operated with single cars mostly sometimes in two-car formation, a special design without end doors and run by one man, standard gauge.

The Broad Street subway is the main north-south transit line and is standard gauge, with a Ridge Street branch that has a track connection and interchange station with Port Authority Transit line over the Franklin Bridge to Camden and Lindenwald, New Jersey.

In addition to Amtrak and SEPTA, 30th Street Station is used by New Jersey Transit push-pull diesel trains to Atlantic City.

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Saturday, April 5, 2008 12:07 AM
Thanks! 
al-in-chgo
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Posted by Falcon48 on Thursday, April 10, 2008 11:11 PM

"Class I", "Class II" and "Class III" railroads refer only to common carrier freight railroads which are subject to the jurisdiction of the Surface Transportation Board (the old ICC).  The classification system is set out in STB's accounting rules, and is based on operating revenue (not profits).  Railroads not subject to STB jurisdiction, such as commuter, transit or tourist railroads, aren't subject to this classification system.

I don't live in Philadelphia, but I believe SEPTA operates its own commuter trains (as opposed to paying a freight railroad to provide thiese services under a purchase of service agreement). If this is correct, FRA would consider SEPTA to be a railroad that's part of the general railroad system as transportation (the same as a freight railroad).  However, as a commuter only railroad, SEPTA wouldn't be subject to STB jurisdication or to STB's classification system.

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