Why are the SD45s hated.....

[EJE818]

You aren't contradicting me at all! Yes, the IC SD40-2s are really starting to fall apart now, and some of them are getting pretty old, especially the 60XXs. Their age has been really showing lately. They are in pretty bad need of overhauls but that won't happen. CN really doesn't care about the 60XXs since they will probably be gone soon. The IC SD40-2s seem to split time on the WC, GTW, and the IC lines. Hopefully someone can get IC 6071 preserved. All of this with the WC SD45s, the IC SD40-2s, and the DM&IR engines is getting me pretty worried about the EJ&E SD38-2s when CN takes over EJ&E. The EJ&Es aren't that much newer then the WC SD45s, and CN has been getting rid of the DM&IR SD38-2s. I'm hoping that one of the EJ&Es can join WC 7525 at IRM.

[wctransfer]

Not to contradict you, but IC power is JUNK. I love the 605Xs, and even the CN repaints. But from a crews standpoint, the only good thing is that they have a fan, and sometimes a/c. Overall, up until the end, the SD45s ran MUCH better than the IC units, because the WC rebuilt the trucks so they didn't ride like a wooden bench.

Alec

[EJE818]

Honestly, CN has jumped the gun several times retiring power and has put themselves at times in a big hole powerwise. Currently CN has over 80 engines retired at Homewood alone retired, some of which are SD40-2s and even SD50Fs. That doesn't include engines retired in other locations. CN is a business though so it is there decision how quick they retire engines, and crews on the IC and GTW hated the SD45s. They rarely ever led down the IC or GTW.

[WCL]

Another MAJOR reason that ya stated which is right is because at 20 cylinders the sd45's were gas hogs and CN isnt interested in keeping anything that isnt fuel efficient with gas prices as high as they are....

[Anonymous]

Why are the WC SD45s hated by CN. Almost all of them are scrapped. Is it because of the 20 cylinders, the turbo-charging, or is it because it doesn't fit in with CN standards? I heard that most railroads didn't want the SD45s, because they where running into problums. Is this true? Why are the SD45s so hated by other railroads?(Or am I wrong, and the Railroads loved them)

As has been said its all to do with economics. its not just in the US that CN has done this, as you may or may not know in the 1990s WC tookover a very large portion of British Rails freight sectors and rebranded them English Welsh & Scottish Railways.

Ed Burkhart was a breath of fresh air in the UK and almost instantly replaced some of the less economical British Motive power built in the 1950s/60s.

But when CN tookover WC that changed again they replaced or took out of service the newer British locos built in the 70s 80s.  

At the end of the day it was economics why run unreliable fuel thursty engines when you can have new computerised efficent EMD/GMs?  yeah it was seen as an unpopular move by enthusiasts.  But unlike WC, CN didnt care much for rail enthusiasts. And as regards the UK and EWS didnt care much for running trains and lost many contracts to Air, Road, and other Rail operators.

[WCL]

CN wants to have the good power running on there lines....They don't wanna have soemthing break down on the line in the middle of no where....The WC power had old and briddle wiring and such and a lot of them needed a lot of work and CN didnt wanna stick money into something that would only run a few more miles....As Hunter also once said in a book...."Out with the old and in with the new"

[EJE818]

That is exactly why CN retired the SD45s, because they were considered junk by CN. They weren't junk to people on the WC, but to CN they were considered that even though in reality they really operated well until almost the end. They were neat looking outside, but inside they were wearing out because CN didn't really care about them and didn't maintain them well. When they were with the WC they were actually maintained. At least CN was generous another to donate not just one to a museum, but two, and they didn't strip the one that went to IRM of any parts. In fact, IRM had the 7525 operating within three days of its arrival there.

[bakupolo]

Does anybody have a picture of the EMD 20-cylinder engines?

Alas it matters not a whit if we like a locomotive or not - only if the accountants like it matters.

[EJE818]

7495 is pretty far away for me to see! 7525 is only about a hour for me, and I usually go to IRM several times a year anyway so everything works fine there. Don't worry, I think plenty of people will come over to Union next year to see and ride behind 7525 pulling the museum's passenger trains. The main reason 7525 is staying WC is because of WC modifying it with the Q-tron and all of those other upgrades, and the fact that IRM wants to have something different and more modern. The Q-tron and the other upgrades made a WC SD45 a perfect fit for the museum. 7525 is probably the most modern engine at IRM considering the modifications WC made to it, plus they now have a Operation Livesaver painted engine at the museum. Maybe the museum could do some kind of partnership with OLS. The more money brought in by the museum, the quicker that steam and the Nebraska Zephyr will be running again. I think it is great that there will be a NP engine preserved, but I like 7495 in WC paint better! 7525 will be making its first revenue non-test runs on October 27th pulling the Screamliner for Terror on the Railroad, so be watching the IRM mainline webcam that night and you should be able to see 7525 operating live on the webcam.

[Lord Atmo]

yeah but now i like 7525 more on account that IRM plans to keep it as a WC. most of the fans are giddy cuz they're in a hurry to see 7495 before he gets NP paint. great for the NP fans though

[coborn35]

This outta make you SD45 fans happy...

CN has donated a WC SD45 to the Illinois Railway museum!

Just thought I'd tell you...

They are already giddy over the one donated about 3 months ago to us. :)

[Anonymous]

 First let get the story on sd45 locomotives correct .Most of them have been rebuilt with none-20 cylinder engines and are essentially sd40-2 configurations.the Canadian Railroads are an enigma they dump Gp40-2w locomotives all over the lease fleet market and keep GP10 and GP11 locomotives on CNIC .Then they go buy gp50,gp40p,and any GP they can get there hands on in the used engine market.CP also dumped the milwaukee MP15ac locomotive which Union Pacific picked up in a mega second.They also dumped the D&H gp39-2 fleet.Have had WC units in consist SD45 and FP45  units they were clean and excellent running power.The mistake that the Canadians made was not trading them to Helms leasing for more Gp38-2 or whatever they were looking for that week.They could have used them on the (Dumb & Hungry) Delaware & Hudson that bunch has always hurting for power since the Guilford raid.The sd45 Wisconsin central power worked fine and is far better then alot of the lease fleet power.The WC also had GP40 units ex-western Pacific units that they rebuilt to excellent locomotives.The units were done at the home shops which the canadians will probably close and furlow these excellent mechanical employees. Have had both CP and CN power funny thing the WC power was in far better shape .the only thing good about CN and CP is the hot plate for cooking.

[ArtOfRuin]

Yes, they where old. But like wctransfer said, WC redid the locos so they weren't half bad.

I wonder how many SD45s are left? There can't be many. I wonder if in the next 15-20 years the SD45 will be nonexistent on most operating railroads.

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Sifting through www.thedieselshop.us' Class I and Regional pages I searched for SD45 (not including Dash-2s). Some of these rosters are a year or more out of date, but this is the only way I could find anything remotely resembling an active SD45 roster list. It looks like BNSF has 14 V-16 units, KCS has one SD45R (R for rebuild), MRL has about 55 various SD45 derivitives (SD45/SDP45R/SD45R/F45XR), IMRL has 21 SD45s, NYS&W has 2 SD45s and an F45, and Pan Am (ST) has one high nose SD45. I'm not going to sift through all those shortline or lease company listings- that'd take forever.

I happen to like the SD45, or at least Pan Am's one leftover unit. They've been trying to scrap it and the other three six-axles left in its roster (an SD39 and the last two SD26's in existence) for months now, but they need the motive power right now and the robber barons who run the road haven't seen fit yet to reach into their deep pockets and get some "preowned" stuff to replace them.

 

[CPRail modeler]

This outta make you SD45 fans happy...

CN has donated a WC SD45 to the Illinois Railway museum!

Just thought I'd tell you...

[coborn35]

Touche.

[YoHo1975]

It's Ex-GN, because GN doesn't own it anymore. And of course it had been painted for BN.

[coborn35]

Wjstix: Just a note, its not EX-GN, it is still painted GN.

WCFan: As will the SD40's, SD40-2's, SD38/SD38-2's etc.

[wjstix]

Why are the WC SD45s hated by CN. Almost all of them are scrapped. Is it because of the 20 cylinders, the turbo-charging, or is it because it doesn't fit in with CN standards? I heard that most railroads didn't want the SD45s, because they where running into problums. Is this true? Why are the SD45s so hated by other railroads?(Or am I wrong, and the Railroads loved them)

As it happens, I got a cab ride in an SD-45 last Friday - ex-GN 400 "Hustle Muscle" at the MN Transportation Museum. Apparently GN had a lot of trouble with the crankshafts when these engines were new, their solution was to make some changes to reduce the horsepower from 3600 to 3300. That seemed to significantly reduce the crankshaft issues.  

[WCfan]

Yes, they where old. But like wctransfer said, WC redid the locos so they weren't half bad.

I wonder how many SD45s are left? There can't be many. I wonder if in the next 15-20 years the SD45 will be nonexistent on most operating railroads.

[Anonymous]

CN didn't like how much fuel they were consuming. They were also pretty old.

[BigJim]

Ya, they had CSIX hand spray painted on the side.

[wctransfer]

Ya, that would be the CSIX ones. Does anyone plan on shooting them when they are scrapped? It would be nice, since no one in Chicago has shot the ones that are being sent away.

Alec

[BigJim]

Don't have time to scan five pages of text, but, there have been an awful lot of red & yellow SD45's coming thru here, heading for what looks like the scrap heap. Any thoughts?

[coborn35]

Oh well. Not my piece of the pie.

[WCfan]

The old WC is not all that flat.  Lots of hills and valleys, a roller coaster if you will.  From Waukesha to Slinger northbound is mostly uphill, with a little down at Rugby.  That is the part I have run on, not sure of the rest of the line.

They were moving pretty big trains, and the SD45 were acquired cheaply.  GP40s might have cost the same, or more per unit, and SD40-2s weren't on the market like they are now.

Yea, coming into Neenah youve got a fairly steep hill, big enough Ive never got up it going more than 20, considering I charged it going 50. Onthe way down, got to use heavy dynamics with them heavy tank trains. 

I'm not saying Wisconsin is ALL flat. But it's flatter than the rockies, which is where WC got most of there SD45s. But Wisconsin Does have it's share of grades.

Thats whats called a contradiction. Also, I wasnt aware that either GN, CB&Q, NP and Frisco ran through the Rockies.....

The GN and the NP ran through the Rockies, and the Cascades for that matter. Also the CB&Q and Frisco units ran over the Rockies while owned by the BN.

Bert

Ahh thats right I was thinking about the MILW for some reason! My bad.

Milwaukee Road DID run through the Cascades. Here's a map. Look in the North West corner. (Milw is the red line) It did run through thr Moutains.

http://webhome.idirect.com/~helmutw/milwrd/media/mrmap73.jpg

[ShopsYardMaster]

The first of the Oxford engines were ex-SP 8939, 8993, and 9093, and
ex-NS 1701, 1718, 1724, and 1744-1746(also 1737 for parts). Then they
added, IIRC, 6498, 6553 and a few other SD-45's whose numbers I don't
recall. They also had the five higher numbered SDL-39's, which were
traded to WC for more SD-45's.

 Most of these SD-45s were leased to UP, NS or CSX during the late '80's/early '90's. 

Oxford later acquired 6 ex-MILW SD-40-2's, #6365-6370(SOO numbers), which were eventually sold to, I believe, KCS. 

[wctransfer]

Max, is there still a sticker that resembles a stop sign on the conductors side door?

Anyway, the WC never really owned the 17XXs or the ex SP units. The WC had three ex SP units, those were 8939,8993,and the 9093.

Alec

[coborn35]

We we have finally aquired WC SD45 #7495, minus its generator.

We being the Lake Superior Railroad Museum and North Shore Scenic Railroad.

[WCfan]

Here's the site where I found the WC 45 info. I'm not sure if they have all the SD45s. But How would I know. It also gives pictures of the units.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoList.aspx?mid=94&Page=1