Can anyone please tell me if the Big Four (CCC&St.L) had their own sub lettered locomotives under the NYC like the P&LE, or lettered NYC System or if their motive power was only standard NYC locomotives used throughout the railroad system.
I have seen photos of freight cars with CCC&St.L with the NYC hearld, but no locomotives. Around where I live in Southern Indiana, people refer to it as the Big Four more than NYC. Thanks for any help.
Ralph
Although the Big Four and Michigan Centrl plus some others continued as legal entities, I don't believe that any of them except P&LE and Peoria & Eastern had any motive power sub-lettered for them in the diesel era.
CSSHEGEWISCH,
Thank you for answering my question, it's much appreciated.
CSSHEGEWISCH Although the Big Four and Michigan Centrl plus some others continued as legal entities, I don't believe that any of them except P&LE and Peoria & Eastern had any motive power sub-lettered for them in the diesel era.
Thank you Backshop. The line that I was looking at was originally built as the Evansville, Mt. Carmel and Northern Railroad but was purchased by the CCC&St.L before it even ran it's first train as I understand it. Everyone always seemed to mostly call it the Big Four instead of the New York Central, even those who worked on it and that's what lead to my question. Thanks again to both of you for helping me.
Old names tend to stick. The Minneapolis Northfield & Southern line that ran thru my hometown (Richfield MN) was built by the Dan Patch Electric Line around 1910. The Dan Patch became the MN&S in 1918 - but I remember into the 1970's (or later?) people calling the line "the Dan Patch".
Both SW8s #9600-9601 for the Louisville and Jeffersonville Bridge Company were sublettered. The hood side said New York Central and the sublettering was under the number on the cabside.
Ed in Kentucky
Another small entity that had sublettered units was the Chicago River & Indiana. It was a small Chicago switching road owned by the NYC.
Martin Station--another thing that I found out when researching railroad locomotive repair shops...althought the Big Four had a huge facility at Beech Grove near Indianapolis, they also had a smaller one at Mt Carmel, IL that seems to still be standing, although repurposed.
I should have remembered CR&I. It briefly had an all-Lima roster in the early 1960's.
When working the B&O Operators position at Storrs Jct. in Cincinnati got to line one of the Big 4's primere trains The James Whitcomb Riley across the B&O's Main Tracks as it moved from Cincinnati Union Station to the Big 4 Main track.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Big 4 (CCC&StL) needs more written about it. (Hearing only about MC, LS&MS and the stuff on the wrong side of the Allegehny molehills gets old .... The Bee Line had some press lately, but...)
Never have seen an image of a sub-lettered diesel anywhere... Big 4 ended as an operating company in 1922 and was a subsidiary until 1960 for tax and financing reasons as late as 1960... The financial juggling created PC and also created its path to destruction in the regulated era. In the juggling, P&E became a subsidiary of CCC&StL more than once.
The Amtrak shops at Beech Grove (Indianapolis / SE Side) still show Big 4 up high on the concrete walls. Sadly, CCC&StL was about 22% of NYC's combined mileage.
mudchicken Big 4 (CCC&StL) needs more written about it. (Hearing only about MC, LS&MS and the stuff on the wrong side of the Allegehny molehills gets old .... The Bee Line had some press lately, but...) Never have seen an image of a sub-lettered diesel anywhere... Big 4 ended as an operating company in 1922 and was a subsidiary until 1960 for tax and financing reasons as late as 1960... The financial juggling created PC and also created its path to destruction in the regulated era. In the juggling, P&E became a subsidiary of CCC&StL more than once. The Amtrak shops at Beech Grove (Indianapolis / SE Side) still show Big 4 up high on the concrete walls. Sadly, CCC&StL was about 22% of NYC's combined mileage.
MC If you're on facebook there's a fb group for the Big 4. I'm a member of it they have some really good info, and pieces on the Big 4.
Backshop Another small entity that had sublettered units was the Chicago River & Indiana. It was a small Chicago switching road owned by the NYC. Martin Station--another thing that I found out when researching railroad locomotive repair shops...althought the Big Four had a huge facility at Beech Grove near Indianapolis, they also had a smaller one at Mt Carmel, IL that seems to still be standing, although repurposed.
Thanks, I didn't know that. There is still a restaurant called the Nesbit Inn that was built as a railroad hotel in Nesbit, Indiana between Evansville and Mt. Carmel, to serve the railroad and a station in Johnson, In. (or at least the shell of it is still standing), in fact I still wonder why no one has tried to save it.
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