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NH FL-9 Air Whistles

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Posted by eolafan on Sunday, February 9, 2020 8:31 PM

I grew up during the 1950's/1960's in Bronxville, NY and within waling distance of the NYC (now Metro North) Harlem line and Bronxville station.  I still vividly recall summer evenings lying in bed with the window open and could hear the FL9's coming through Bronxville with their Hancock air whisles blaring.

Eolafan (a.k.a. Jim)
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Posted by samfp1943 on Wednesday, February 5, 2020 10:12 PM

Like many poster here, I grew up in the "Land of BLAT!"... Our closest railline was the East Freight Bypass at Memphis.          

      We had resident railroads near-by {IC,L&N,MoPac}; mostly, the single noters. Sigh   For kids, interested in trains, we had grown used to hearing one noters.  The stand-outs were the occasional E-units that passed through (multiple horns, chimes?). Those were beuaties to listen toWowThumbs UpThumbs Up.   

  There was a long period when 'our local' used visiting CN [THey had multi-note horns, that sounded like nothing else heard in our area] for power.  {Local was a week-day regular CSX, that was crewed by NC&StL senoriy holders}.It ran out from Leewood Yd to Brownsville and back, and out to Lenow, on some days. Somehow those guys kept those CN units for what seemed to be many days.. Train watching, in those times were really interesting and fun.Whistling

 

 


 

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Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, February 5, 2020 4:27 PM

I grew up along the Minneapolis Northfield & Southern Ry. They used Hancock air whistles on their diesels. As noted, it was a softer sound, very much like a steam engine. It was hard to get used to the incredibly loud Soo Line "BLAT" airhorns when they bought the MN&S in the early eighties. Progressive Rail (who now operates the MNS line I lived by) has at least some diesels with both Hancock air whistles and airhorns.

The DM&IR didn't like the sound of the single-chime airhorn on their first GM diesels, and tried Hancock air whistles for a year or two before finding a five-chime air horn that had a more pleasing sound than the "BLAT" horn and carried farther than the air whistle. 

Stix
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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, January 26, 2020 9:52 PM

Many, many, many stories relate the early development of the Hexatone air horn by Bob Swanson to accidents where a single-note horn like an A200 was mistaken for a mere truck horn.  

Here is the 'original' sound developed to be "unmistakeable":

http://users.zoominternet.net/~millereric1971/videos/STE-062H61D102516.mp3

The 'rest' of the history of Airchime Ltd. and Nathan is a fair indication that the concept of multiple 'chimes' was an improvement on single notes -- whether the dissonance introduced in the Leslie S5 #25 bell was intentional to give discord as well as polytonality to the distinctive railroad warning is a matter for further discussion.  Some horns, notably on modern EMDs, are intentionally massively dissonant and lamentably 'seizing' of the attention!

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Posted by Paul Milenkovic on Sunday, January 26, 2020 5:56 PM

BaltACD

During my growing years with F untis being the primary engines - the single tone Leslie 200 has become my standard - none of this fancy multiple pitch nonsense.  It is a locomotive warning device, not a cathedral pipe organ.

 

 

There may be a purpose behind the "fancy multiple pitch nonsense."  There is a benefit to a train horn not sounding the same as the air horn on a large truck.  This is especially with respect to alerting motorists to the unique hazard posed by a train approaching a grade crossing.

The same could be said about a locomotive headlight.  A person can see the headlight of an approaching train, but the oscillating Mars light along with the newer alternativing ditch lights may be an effort to grab more attention to the danger of an approaching train.

Yes, there are those who don't heed warnings.  But I like the idea that the 5-chime Amtrak or commuter train horn has a distinctive sound than other horns.

If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, January 26, 2020 1:57 PM

During my growing years with F untis being the primary engines - the single tone Leslie 200 has become my standard - none of this fancy multiple pitch nonsense.  It is a locomotive warning device, not a cathedral pipe organ.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, January 25, 2020 11:37 AM

Paul M.--- What a great post!  Thank you in droves. Incredible website.

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, January 25, 2020 10:27 AM

You know, I think it sounds pretty good!

Although in deference to Big Jim, it sure ain't the "steamboat" whistle of a Class J or the "hooter" of a Class Y!

But of course if the required volume just wasn't there, then it just didn't serve the purpose.

Interestingly, steam whistles hooked up to air compressors just don't have the volume either.  I guess they need all that boiler pressure to get the best out of them. 

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Posted by Paul Milenkovic on Saturday, January 25, 2020 9:52 AM

Anyone have a link to a video or recording where one can hear the sound of the air whistle?

 

OK, Google/Bing is my friend, and here is where you can hear one

http://www.dieselairhorns.com/collection.html

I guess it sounds kind of weak, like it has a chest cold?

If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, January 25, 2020 8:48 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH

Most interesting that Conrail's executive E's were equipped with them.

 

I guess Conrail brass just liked the sound of them.

Interesting shots NDG, especially those early first-generation diesels with air whistles.  I guess I'm like most people, I assumed diesels and horns arrived just about simultaniously, I never thought they'd have whistles.  Live and learn!

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, January 25, 2020 6:50 AM

Most interesting that Conrail's executive E's were equipped with them.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, January 24, 2020 5:38 PM

What kind of electric horn did the Georgia RR have ?

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, January 24, 2020 2:42 PM

Or those sirens might have made people think an air raid was coming.  Wink

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, January 24, 2020 1:31 PM

Paul of Covington
Has anyone tried an electronic or electric horn (as in cars)?   Is it too difficult or expensive to make them loud enough?

In general, 'electric' horns of a given size are less powerful than their pneumatic equivalents; in any case even blowing air horns on reduced pressure can produce sound pressure levels in excess of those permissible by law.  You may also note that car horns blown pneumatically are often substituted for multiple electrical horns by choice; I think both the cost to wire the straight electrics and the weight involved goes up dramatically as you need more relays to blow bigger diaphragm sizes.  The last car I owned with a multi-note electric horn was a '76 Cadillac (I believe with five separate horns) and it involved some careful multiple relay control to work -- although admittedly it was a wonderful thing to blow in tunnels and under bridges to give that express-train sound...

The same 'excuse' used back in the day for pneumatic horns over steam whistles, that brake main reservoir air is relatively easy to tap cheaply vs. providing electrical circuits, is valid for electrical replacements (even those supplied via some sort of 'data bus' where the electrical connection would also carry the logic to blow or quill the valve for each bell).

I don't know offhand if the experiments on UP with the Federal Signal si-reens were electrically driven ... they were analogous to weather sirens and supposedly VERY loud, but not of a timbre 'alarming' enough to justify the expense.  And possibly confusable with weather alerts themselves...

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Posted by Paul of Covington on Friday, January 24, 2020 1:18 PM

   I understand many bells lately are electronic.  Has anyone tried an electronic or electric horn (as in cars)?   Is it too difficult or expensive to make them loud enough?

_____________ 

  "A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, January 24, 2020 12:07 PM

BaltACD
I have seen some pictures of Seaboard engines being equipped with the Hancock Air Whistle.

I think only the SDP35s had them.  1953 kept hers until comparatively late (1975), although I can find nothing later than that which shows one without conversion to air horns.  (Interestingly, most of these, including 1114 as preserved, show a 2-horn relatively low mount, but 2 and 6 nominally relegated to hump service have a full five-chime setup.

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, January 24, 2020 10:24 AM

I have seen some pictures of Seaboard engines being equipped with the Hancok Air Whitle.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, January 22, 2020 10:07 AM

Some of EJ&E's centercabs were equipped with Hancock air whistles.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, January 22, 2020 9:21 AM

Didn't the New York Central's S-motors have air whistles on them, or something similar?  How about the T-motors, or were reliable and attention-getting horns developed by the time they came along?

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, January 21, 2020 11:04 AM

They were intended to provide a note similar to a 'steam' whistle for railroad vehicles that didn't use steam -- specifically to differentiate from contemporary single-note air horns (that could be confused with trucks or other vehicles).  This was in competition with the Canadian company that commercialized chime horns playing tuned chords -- the solution that has prevailed in the marketplace.

Up to that time, the 'whistles' available to things like interurbans or even electric locomotives were parlous little things -- the whistles on the PRR MP54s resembling someone blowing into a bottle rather than a sound commanding attention.  While Hancock would sell you an air whistle 'by itself' (the H4700 in the catalogue) most of them included a parabolic reflector to focus the somewhat anemic sound forward in the same general pattern that a horn bell would; some even included heaters in the reflector to keep it clear of snow (as blowing the whistle certainly wouldn't do that!)

This is NOT the first attempt to provide an air-driven chime on a locomotive -- Lackawanna was active using multiple small-bell air horn clusters for steam power starting in the '20s (sourced from a local organ builder!) and at least some of these -- presumably tuned to recognizable chords -- were used at the Hoboken terminal as fixed warning devices.

I have been told that the construction was similar to a comparably-sized steam whistle, but I have my doubts that is so.  The principle is the same: multiple chambers in the cylindrical body, and multiple divided jets making air in each chamber resonate at a characteristic frequency.  Note that you very seldom hear these being 'quilled', which makes me think they usually had on/off valve control (or a comparatively modal valve design) -- the sound would be even more anemic if blown on 'reduced pressure'.

At least part of the intended market was, in fact, steam locomotives.  By the late '40s many railroads were increasingly aware of the amount of steam 'wasted' in blowing whistles, especially as water treatment became more and more expensive.  We have had threads on the number of locomotives given air horns not only to 'sound like contemporary motor-train streamliners' (like the GS-4s and other contemporary 'streamlined' SP power) but to save money (some NYC classes).  Hancock would tap this market with a more conventional whistle that could mount in place of a single-bell horn.

In my opinion they are certainly 'better' than a typical random-tuned single-note honker; there are very few locomotives (the GG1 being one) that could pull off the right baritone sound to Make You Notice.  But they didn't hold a candle to even simple multiple-note tuned horns on a common manifold.

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NH FL-9 Air Whistles
Posted by BigJim on Tuesday, January 21, 2020 10:38 AM

I was listening to a CD that I have about first generation diesels. On there were two recordings of New Haven EMD FL-9 locos with air whistles (not horns). Can anyone tell more about these whistles...other than the fact that they are not the most appealing whistles I've ever heard?

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