NS acquiring 100 of UP's EMD SD9043MAC locomotives

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Posted by GDRMCo on Monday, September 15, 2014 11:25 PM

The electrical system in them is generally regarded as their weak link, maybe NS will gut it entirely and put in a new system from top to bottom?

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Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, September 16, 2014 6:11 AM

YoHo1975
It's unclear to me what the electrical and computer differences are. I know the 90 H-Macs were unique flowers. Not sure how unique the 9043s are compared to a 70MAC and the ACE. I think the inverters are different are they not? 

It's my understanding that the UP SD9043MACs are electrical cousins to the SD80MACs - both have the same Siemens gear in them.  

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, September 16, 2014 6:15 AM

YoHo1975
I mentioned the inverters not the alternators. I thought the 90s and the 9043s had different inverters from the Siemens units in the 70MACs and I know that the SD70ACes use Mitsubishi. 

If I remember right, the Seimens gear came in "large" and "small".  The 70MACs got small inverters and motors, the 80's, 90's and 9043 convertibles got "large".

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, September 16, 2014 6:15 AM

YoHo1975
Again, NS has some units from EMD/Progress like the PR43Cs. Don't know how they feel about them, but others are happy. 

They are "hanger queens"

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by CPM500 on Tuesday, September 16, 2014 8:34 AM

There must be a parallel universe where 'others' are 'happy' with the PR43. Incredible.

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Posted by NorthWest on Tuesday, September 16, 2014 6:03 PM

Um, NS is the only railroad with PR43Cs...

CPM500, good to see you posting again.

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Tuesday, September 16, 2014 7:02 PM

Reading Is Fundamental

The question was about EMD/Progress rebuilds. "LIKE" The PR43s. I didn't say others had PR43s I said others have rebuilds from EMD/Progress. Including PR30s. SD22ECOs GP22ECOs SD59MX, GP20C, SD30C.

The PR43Cs being shop queens may actually go a long way to explaining why they wouldn't contract the rebuilds out. Even if it was the design, not the construction that is at fault. 

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Posted by NorthWest on Tuesday, September 16, 2014 7:13 PM

With the exception of the PR30Cs and PR30Bs, those are all 710-powered units.

With the issues with the PR43Cs, it is interesting that the same engine is expected to work well in the F125s.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, September 16, 2014 7:56 PM

NorthWest
Um, NS is the only railroad with PR43Cs...

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, September 16, 2014 8:03 PM

NorthWest
With the issues with the PR43Cs, it is interesting that the same engine is expected to work well in the F125s.

My understanding is that it isn't quite the 'same' engine (even though in the same engine family) -- the F125 is designed for the C175-20. in a disaster waiting to happen; while the PR43C has two prime movers, one of which is the 3600-hp variant of the C175 family (the other IIRC being a C18)

Who has a specific description of the failures that are making the NS locomotives 'hangar queens' ...

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Posted by NorthWest on Tuesday, September 16, 2014 10:25 PM

Overmod, PHL 40 (pictured) is a PR30C. These, to my knowledge, have been much more successful.

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Tuesday, September 16, 2014 11:23 PM
For my purposes, the fact that the P43C is a Cat engine isn't really as important as who was doing the work. Again, the question is how NS feels about Progress doing the rebuilds. As for the F125. The only difference I can think of that might matter. Aside from expected service, passenger vs. freight. Is that the F125 was designed by EMD, not Progress and that may make all the difference...or it may not.
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Posted by GDRMCo on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 12:55 AM

PHL #40 is an ex Progress Rail Leasing PR43C.

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Posted by NorthWest on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 9:14 AM

You are correct, PHL 40 is a PR43C. My locomotive notes are outdated, and have been corrected.

This all brings up an interesting question: how are EMD-Progress internal relations?

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Posted by Bryan Jones on Thursday, September 18, 2014 4:57 AM

NorthWest

You are correct, PHL 40 is a PR43C. My locomotive notes are outdated, and have been corrected.

No, he is not correct. PHL #40 is a PR30C, former PRLX #3006 and originally built as CP Rail SD40-2 #5819.

The only PR43C's are on NS, numbered NS #4000-4011 and PRLX #4300. NS #4000 and 4001 as well as PRLX 4300 are standard cab units and were rebuilt from SD50 core units. NS #4002-4011 were rebuilt from SD60 core units and are equipped with a unique wide nose cab designed by Progress Rail. PRLX #4300 wears a modified NS paint scheme with the Progress Rail logo replacing the NS logo in the center of the longhood and a smaller NS logo under the radiator section.

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Posted by Paul Milenkovic on Thursday, September 18, 2014 11:01 AM

Bryan Jones

NorthWest

You are correct, PHL 40 is a PR43C. My locomotive notes are outdated, and have been corrected.

No, he is not correct. PHL #40 is a PR30C, former PRLX #3006 and originally built as CP Rail SD40-2 #5819.

The only PR43C's are on NS, numbered NS #4000-4011 and PRLX #4300. NS #4000 and 4001 as well as PRLX 4300 are standard cab units and were rebuilt from SD50 core units. NS #4002-4011 were rebuilt from SD60 core units and are equipped with a unique wide nose cab designed by Progress Rail. PRLX #4300 wears a modified NS paint scheme with the Progress Rail logo replacing the NS logo in the center of the longhood and a smaller NS logo under the radiator section.

Bryan Jones

Perfessor!  I'm confused!Tongue Tied

Is Kalmbach still coming out with a new volume in their Diesel Spotter's Guide series, or are they also hopelessly confused with no chance of keeping up with the plethora of model numbers?

If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
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Posted by NorthWest on Thursday, September 18, 2014 5:52 PM

I've looked around the web, and have found the unit referred to as both a PR43C and a PR30C, everyone agrees on it being ex PRLX 3006. Usually, I'd use serial numbers to solve this, but I can't find any for Progress Rail units.

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Thursday, September 18, 2014 6:26 PM

PRLX 3006 is consistantly referred to as being PR30C

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Posted by GDRMCo on Thursday, September 18, 2014 8:03 PM

Consistently you say?

http://thedieselshop.us/PHL.HTML

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoPicture.aspx?id=159608

Two of only a few examples where it seems to be stuffed up....

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Thursday, September 18, 2014 8:31 PM

The Diesel Shop is a treasure trove of inaccurate data. The repowered Baldwin that BNSF rostered, for instance, was only removed recently from their current BNSF roster despite being closely followed in railfan circles with her retirement and donation years before widely publicized. And the 1685, the "One Spot" that kept her assignment in Manitoba for 50 years, was donated several years ago yet is still shown as active and part of the current roster. 

If they're that bad with power that had some notoriety and got some attention when they were donated, imagine the accuracy with everyday power like SD40-2's, all these new designations for Green Goats and all these new environmentally friendlier switchers from the past decade or so, etc. 

At best, The Diesel Shop is a launching point when researching something. In no way, shape, or form should it be relied upon for anything definitive.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, September 18, 2014 8:45 PM

I had been  looking at these references when I put up that picture; I think now that they are wrong.

Note as a particular example what appears in a 'tab' view of the Diesel Shop page on the PR43C -- you guessed it, PR30C.  My suspicion is that they 'cloned' the older PR30C page to enter the new data, and left PHL 40 there when they did...

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Posted by NorthWest on Thursday, September 18, 2014 8:46 PM

I've also picked up a few errors in their specification sheets, probably copy-and-paste errors.

I love the RRPA page, "Model" and "Notes" are contradictory.

If one of the picture captions is correct, serial number is  JNX00115. Will poke around some more...

PHL 40 has the large box behind the dynamic brake blister that is consistent with PR30C production, PR43Cs don't have this. I now believe that this is a PR30C (again).

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Posted by D.Carleton on Thursday, September 18, 2014 9:58 PM

This is all well and good but will the day come when some or all of the NS PR43Cs are rebuilt into SD60Es?

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Friday, September 19, 2014 12:02 AM
GDRMCo

Consistently you say?

http://thedieselshop.us/PHL.HTML

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoPicture.aspx?id=159608

Two of only a few examples where it seems to be stuffed up....

1: I said PRLX 3006, NOT PHL 40. My point was that when it had PRLX reporting marks it is consistently labeled a PR30C. It is only once it was repainted that the error creeps in. So, to show my statement inaccurate, you'd need to post a link to the unit wearing PRLX reporting marks being inaccurately labeled. 2: you will note in the rrpicturearchives.net header that it is correctly labeled a PR30C and it is only on the individual pictures where it is wrong.
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Posted by Overmod on Friday, September 19, 2014 11:48 AM

For someone with more practical interest in this than I have: the customer service number for PHL is (310) 834-4594.  Someone with the right phone manner can call them and have somebody verify what #40 actually is.

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Posted by NorthWest on Friday, September 19, 2014 5:39 PM

D.Carleton
This is all well and good but will the day come when some or all of the NS PR43Cs are rebuilt into SD60Es?

Interesting comment. If they are failures, I think this is likely to occur. Can anyone comment on the specific issues with them?

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Posted by D.Carleton on Sunday, September 21, 2014 11:42 AM

On top of all of this I will be very curious to see what the bidding looks like when the FEC SD70M-2s are sidelined.

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Sunday, September 21, 2014 12:19 PM

They were leased, not owned. So there probably won't be any bidding on them. 

My contact there told me the other day that FEC's first GE is well into production. So just a few more weeks away from its debut. 

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Posted by beaulieu on Sunday, September 21, 2014 4:43 PM

NS will now be getting 120 ex-UP SD9043MACs as they decided to buy 20 additional locomotives. Likely the found some additional available money,

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Posted by D.Carleton on Sunday, September 21, 2014 5:10 PM

Leo_Ames

They were leased, not owned. So there probably won't be any bidding on them. 

My contact there told me the other day that FEC's first GE is well into production. So just a few more weeks away from its debut. 

Unless they are going to be stored on a siding somewhere and forgotten then they will be leased or sold to another railroad. This will require a bidding process to exact the highest price.

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