Norfolk Southern is going to start a rebuilding program for their Dash 8's and Dash 9's

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Posted by D.Carleton on Tuesday, January 17, 2017 8:41 PM

Leo_Ames
D.Carleton
Leo_Ames
Interesting post for some related CSX news, involving what appears to be a similar program to Norfolk Southern's AC44C6M's, except for C40-8W's. 

Interesting. I'll believe it when I see it. If so, perhaps this is why NS curtailed their 8.5 program. Or perhaps it was the 8.5 program that prompted GE to give the Dash 8 another look. 

Since you were skeptical, this should put a smile on your face. :)

What was originally rumored to be a DC to AC conversion of a test batch of C40-8Ws is actually just a DC refurb

http://railroadfan.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=370984#p370984

https://www.instagram.com/p/BPS7GHDhKS_/

I would have liked to have seen a Dash 8 DC to AC conversion yet, although possible it really is not probable. I work with a number of GE alumni and so far there is no AC traction motor that will fit into the legacy truck. Swapping trucks is cost prohibitive. This appears to be a thorough overhaul and update but not as ambitious as NS' 8.5 venture; i.e. EFI or split cooling. Even so, the Dash 8 is a good machine and hopfully GE has found a way to keep them around for many more years to come.

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Posted by rockymidlandrr on Wednesday, February 08, 2017 8:59 PM

D.Carleton

 

 
Leo_Ames
D.Carleton
Leo_Ames
Interesting post for some related CSX news, involving what appears to be a similar program to Norfolk Southern's AC44C6M's, except for C40-8W's. 

Interesting. I'll believe it when I see it. If so, perhaps this is why NS curtailed their 8.5 program. Or perhaps it was the 8.5 program that prompted GE to give the Dash 8 another look. 

Since you were skeptical, this should put a smile on your face. :)

What was originally rumored to be a DC to AC conversion of a test batch of C40-8Ws is actually just a DC refurb

http://railroadfan.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=370984#p370984

https://www.instagram.com/p/BPS7GHDhKS_/

 

 

I would have liked to have seen a Dash 8 DC to AC conversion yet, although possible it really is not probable. I work with a number of GE alumni and so far there is no AC traction motor that will fit into the legacy truck. Swapping trucks is cost prohibitive. This appears to be a thorough overhaul and update but not as ambitious as NS' 8.5 venture; i.e. EFI or split cooling. Even so, the Dash 8 is a good machine and hopfully GE has found a way to keep them around for many more years to come.

 

 

 

CSX did it.  There are three Dash 8's floating around that have had AC traction motors in the trucks and kept the original trucks.

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Wednesday, February 08, 2017 10:12 PM

I haven't heard of any such conversions on CSX. 

Are you sure that you're not thinking of the new C40-8WM's? Like we've been talking about, these new C40-8W rebuilds did not receive the initially expected AC upgrade. 

I'm not even aware of any other major Dash 8 rebuild programs that have happened at CSX, other than this test group being delivered now. The C40-8's are gone rather than be rebuilt for another 10-15 years of service, the B40-8's were partially derated before retirement but never entered a capital rebuild program, and C40-8W's have previously only seen overhauls or wreck rebuildings. 

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Posted by NorthWest on Thursday, February 09, 2017 12:44 AM

7771, 7807 and 7801 are still DC, but designated C40-8WMs on their new decals. They lack inverter cabinets.

The first AC4400CW, GECX 4400, rides on Dofasco trucks off of an old MLW unit, so putting AC motors on the standard Dash-8 trucks which have a wider axle spacing should be possible.

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=324782

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Posted by D.Carleton on Saturday, February 11, 2017 12:55 PM

NorthWest
The first AC4400CW, GECX 4400, rides on Dofasco trucks off of an old MLW unit, so putting AC motors on the standard Dash-8 trucks which have a wider axle spacing should be possible.

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=324782

I know we're veering off topic but who cares? It's Saturday. GECX 4400 has always been an bit of a mystery. Many moons ago ABB rewired the one-and-only M640 with AC traction and, to conserve space, installed two traction motors per truck making it A1A, foreshadowing the ES44C4 by decades. A 3-phase AC traction motor is smaller than a DC motor and should fit anywhere a DC motor fits. Then again for whatever reason dropping an AC motor into a legacy truck has been problematic at best. Anyone else remember the F69ACs? I'd love to see 3rd generation locomotives or older get an AC refit but the financial argument thus far seems to be against it.

 

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Wednesday, March 01, 2017 11:14 PM

NSDash9 posted that all C40-8's have been retired and sold. Disposition details are in the link.

https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fnsdash9%2Fposts%2F10154581443588843&

Someone mentioned in the comments that the new ET44AC's, also mentioned today in another post about several being tested or ready to be delivered to NS, were the killer of these already stored units.

But with the standard cabs already stored before these were delivered, I would think that they'll more likely push aside C40-8W's into storage or further non-rebuilt standard cab SD60's. 

The last three GP38AC's are officially now retired, too. Other than rebuilds and potentially N&W's first SD40 rejoining the active roster for a time before donation, that takes care of the last pre-Dash 2 road power (5 SW1001's, built after the introduction of EMD's Dash 2 lineup but of a model introduced in 1968, remain on the active roster). 

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Thursday, March 02, 2017 7:09 AM

There was an earlier one at Amtrak than the F69AC's.  F40PH 202 was damaged in a wreck the magicans at Beech Grove and they are magicans at times with how they can bring back a wreck.  Well they took her added a custom AC drive to her complete with 4 AC traction motors and put her back into service.  No special paint on her just sent her back into service.  It now is at the Publeo CO TTCI AAR test track out of service. 

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Posted by JayPotter on Thursday, March 02, 2017 7:36 AM

In response to the mention of CSXT having converted three DASH 8s into AC-traction units, I'm not aware of that having been done.  However CSXT does operate three AC4400CWs that GE upgraded in 2008 from standard units into high-tractive-effort (i.e. "AH") units by adding 18,500 pounds of ballast and various other enhancements.

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Posted by NorthWest on Friday, April 14, 2017 9:38 PM

Apparently being a NS rebuild prototype is a hazardous thing for a locomotive...

https://www.facebook.com/nsdash9/posts/10154713777278843

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Posted by D.Carleton on Saturday, April 15, 2017 12:27 AM

NorthWest

Apparently being a NS rebuild prototype is a hazardous thing for a locomotive...

https://www.facebook.com/nsdash9/posts/10154713777278843

Second brand new GE cab to go on its side. Unreal.

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Posted by NorthWest on Sunday, April 16, 2017 8:48 PM

And 4005 has apparently caught fire (as GEs sometimes do):

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/613506/

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Posted by D.Carleton on Monday, June 25, 2018 6:40 PM

D.Carleton

I would have liked to have seen a Dash 8 DC to AC conversion yet, although possible it really is not probable. I work with a number of GE alumni and so far there is no AC traction motor that will fit into the legacy truck. Swapping trucks is cost prohibitive. This appears to be a thorough overhaul and update but not as ambitious as NS' 8.5 venture; i.e. EFI or split cooling. Even so, the Dash 8 is a good machine and hopfully GE has found a way to keep them around for many more years to come.

Interesting how things change in a year-and-a-half. Two Dash 9s have been rebuilt into model "AC44C6CF" with traction control and motors from CAF (although I've never known CAF to make its own motors) and other stuff from other vendors. The kicker is the traction motor ostensibly fits in the space of a GE 752. This opens the door to some interesting possibilities.

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Posted by HR616 on Monday, June 25, 2018 11:10 PM

D.Carleton

Interesting how things change in a year-and-a-half. Two Dash 9s have been rebuilt into model "AC44C6CF" with traction control and motors from CAF (although I've never known CAF to make its own motors) and other stuff from other vendors. The kicker is the traction motor ostensibly fits in the space of a GE 752. This opens the door to some interesting possibilities.

This new rebuild model is probably cheaper for the reasons you mentioned, but I am skeptical about its reliability, given the failure of the Dash 8.5 program. To me it just sounds like another "parts box" that could be prone to failures and difficult to maintain.

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Tuesday, June 26, 2018 12:01 AM

Hasn't GE/NS been testing modified Dash 9 trucks under one of the AC44C6M's? Assuming that is successful and is incorporated into later AC44C6M production, that largely eliminates this particular area of savings here. 

I have to think it's still cost related though for Norfolk Southern to be seriously considering a different style of DC to AC rebuild program for a portion of their Dash 9 fleet. They're not going to be making the mechanical department's job more difficult and costly just for the heck of it.

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Posted by owlsroost on Tuesday, June 26, 2018 2:42 AM

D.Carleton

 

Interesting how things change in a year-and-a-half. Two Dash 9s have been rebuilt into model "AC44C6CF" with traction control and motors from CAF (although I've never known CAF to make its own motors) and other stuff from other vendors. The kicker is the traction motor ostensibly fits in the space of a GE 752. This opens the door to some interesting possibilities.

CAF (the Spanish parent company) do list traction converters and 'turnkey' traction system development on their website - https://www.caf.net/en/productos-servicios/equipos-traccion-comunicacion/equipos-traccion-convertidores.php (but not motors specifically, so maybe they are being supplied by someone else to CAF's specification).

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Posted by VOLKER LANDWEHR on Tuesday, June 26, 2018 5:10 AM

On the NSDash9.com facebook site (June 12) is the following description.

Rebuilt with CAF AC traction motors specifically designed to fit the existing Dash 9 trucks, TMV control system, Ganser common rail EUI system, and additional weight.

On the website is additional information:
AC traction motor: CAF X.R0.00114
AC conversion utilizing CAF USA designed electrical components, new electrical and inverter cabinet.
Source: http://www.nsdash9.com/rosters/8520.html
Regards, Volker


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Posted by D.Carleton on Tuesday, June 26, 2018 11:15 PM

Leo_Ames

Hasn't GE/NS been testing modified Dash 9 trucks under one of the AC44C6M's? Assuming that is successful and is incorporated into later AC44C6M production, that largely eliminates this particular area of savings here. 

If the truck is found to be structuraly sound following testing and the cost of the modification is less than new then yes, it will work. Thus far no word from the testing and it has not yet been repeated.

Leo_Ames

I have to think it's still cost related though for Norfolk Southern to be seriously considering a different style of DC to AC rebuild program for a portion of their Dash 9 fleet. They're not going to be making the mechanical department's job more difficult and costly just for the heck of it.

You better believe it's all cost related. I cannot see NS rebuilding Dash 9s into anything other than an AC44C6M. But if the AC44C6CF prototypes work then they can go to GE, after the initial 500 unit contract is complete, and negotitate a better package for future rebuilds.

So what of the two new models? They appear to be a continuation of the Dash 8.5 program with many of the same players (and the addition of CAF/AC traction). If their package will not be applied to any more Dash 9s then what else could it be applied to?

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 11:27 AM
Wait, I'm confused, I thought Dash9s and AC4400s had the same Hi-Ad trucks. The Dash 8s used the older truck design.
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Posted by D.Carleton on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 2:51 PM

YoHo1975
Wait, I'm confused, I thought Dash9s and AC4400s had the same Hi-Ad trucks. The Dash 8s used the older truck design.

Don't feel bad, a lot of us thought so too. Apparently there are differences between the rollerblade trucks that hold an AC B13B traction motor and those that carry a 752 DC motor. NS modified a set of DC motor trucks to hold the AC traction motor and they are currently under test. I saw many unemployed Dash 9 truck frames sitting in Altoona when I passed by a couple of weeks ago.

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