Prime Mover Manufacturers.

[G Mack]

Greetings everyone,

Are the prime movers in locomotives made by the parent company or obtained from a vendor?

I recall reading that EMD produced their own powerplants but GE prime movers are made in Grove City, PA. I think the article I read stated that the GE engine was a Bessemer-Cooper product. I suppose it could be that this is a wholly owned part of GE and supplies all of their prime movers. Does anyone know where EMD makes their powerplants?

Hasta luego,

Gregory

[beaulieu]

Greetings everyone,

Are the prime movers in locomotives made by the parent company or obtained from a vendor?

I recall reading that EMD produced their own powerplants but GE prime movers are made in Grove City, PA. I think the article I read stated that the GE engine was a Bessemer-Cooper product. I suppose it could be that this is a wholly owned part of GE and supplies all of their prime movers. Does anyone know where EMD makes their powerplants?

Hasta luego,

Gregory

 

EMD and GE both build their own prime movers. GE Locomotives up until the development of the Evolution Series were powered by the GE FDL series engine, which was originally designed by Coopers-Bessemer. The new GEVO engine is completely a GE design. GE's engine plant is in Grove City, PA which is some distance from the locomotive plant at Erie, PA. EMD builds their prime movers at LaGrange, IL, in the US but their locomotives are assembled in London, Ontario or elsewhere.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

MPI uses engines from EMD, Caterpillar or Detroit Diesel/MTU, depending on the make and model of the locomotive.  Railpower and NRE use Cummins engines for their gen-set locomotives.

Alco's diesel engines were designed and built by Macintosh & Seymour, which was eventually bought out by Alco.  Similarly, Baldwin's diesel engines were designed and built by De La Vergne, which was later absorbed by Baldwin.  Steam locomotive builder Lima purchased the Hamilton Engine Company in order to acquire a diesel engine builder necessary to preserve the company's locomotive business.

[spikejones52002]

EMD does not do any manufacturing in La Grange Il. anymore.

Everything is in Canada.

[G Mack]

Thanks for the info.

The mentioning of the Macintosh & Seymour engines in Paul's post cleared up a long-standing question I had. One day I was riding around the southern part of Indiana and saw two huge engines sitting on a derelict flat car. That was what they were, Macintosh & Seymour. They were an in-line eight cylinder configuration and, as I said, they were huge, looking like two rectangular blocks of steel with some tubing on the outside.

The responses bring up another set of questions for me. Is there anything left of EMD in LaGrange, Ill? Or has all of their plants been razed?

Does anyone know if there is a way to get a tour of the EMD or GE locomotive plants or has anyone out there been on a tour?

Salud,

Gregory

[beaulieu]

EMD does not do any manufacturing in La Grange Il. anymore.

Everything is in Canada.

That is not true, they don't assemble the locomotive in LaGrange, IL but the do build the motor there. London builds the alternators and traction motors

[Anonymous]

MPI uses engines from EMD, Caterpillar or Detroit Diesel/MTU, depending on the make and model of the locomotive.  Railpower and NRE use Cummins engines for their gen-set locomotives.

Alco's diesel engines were designed and built by Macintosh & Seymour, which was eventually bought out by Alco.  Similarly, Baldwin's diesel engines were designed and built by De La Vergne, which was later absorbed by Baldwin.  Steam locomotive builder Lima purchased the Hamilton Engine Company in order to acquire a diesel engine builder necessary to preserve the company's locomotive business.

Don't forget that EMD used Winton engines before they designed the 567. Their early SC and NW switchers used the Winton 201A.

[beaulieu]

Don't forget that EMD used Winton engines before they designed the 567. Their early SC and NW switchers used the Winton 201A.

Yes, but by then Winton was another Division of General Motors. Later it was renamed as Cleveland Engine, and went on to build lots of Marine Diesels. Winton was bought by GM in the same year as EMC (later EMD). 

[JT22CW]

Not a US example, but British Rail's Class 55 (built at English Electric's Vulcan Foundry) each featured two Deltic diesel prime-movers made by D. Napier & Sons.

[doghouse]

Not a US example, but British Rail's Class 55 (built at English Electric's Vulcan Foundry) each featured two Deltic diesel prime-movers made by D. Napier & Sons.

 

 

Can you turbo charge this thing?

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The Deltic in the diagram looks like a two-cycle engine, so it would need at least a Roots blower to operate.  Turbocharging would be no big deal.  Nevertheless, it looks like a maintenance nightmare.

[doghouse]

Not a US example, but British Rail's Class 55 (built at English Electric's Vulcan Foundry) each featured two Deltic diesel prime-movers made by D. Napier & Sons.

 

 

Can you turbo charge this thing?

 

You mean this thing is for real?

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The Deltic is very real and was used in a whole class of British locomotives.  It may have also been used by the Royal Navy.  It's not that different from a Fairbanks-Morse OP engine.

[beaulieu]

The Deltic engine is very real, albeit no longer in production. Lots of power in a small package. Expensive to maintain, though. And yes, it was used in some fast RN patrol craft.

[doghouse]

 

Is there a site where one can go to see how it works?  It looks so ungamely.   

[espeefoamer]

Are there any Deltics still in service in the UK? Have any been preserved?Are any Deltics in museum or tourist service?Inquiring railfans want to know!

[jarodlan]

None of the 22 Deltic's built are in service but several have been saved,

and a few of them are in operating condition.

One, the prototype, is exhibited at the National Railway Museum in

York. 

[tdmidget]

 Fire Dept. of New York had a system back in the '60s called the Superpumper. 2 were built and I am told that one survives in their museum. The pump was , I believe powered by a Napier Deltic.

[Gary UK]

Are there any Deltics still in service in the UK? Have any been preserved?Are any Deltics in museum or tourist service?Inquiring railfans want to know!

Here you go http://www.royalscotsgrey.com/deltics.htm

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/theblackwatch/tech1.htm

This site here is actualy in the U.S, looks like this engine came from a boat supplied to the U.S navy and has 3100bhp on the crankcase, thats alot of power for the size!! http://www.ptfnasty.com/ptfDelticPhoto.htm

 

The prime mover in these wasnt ideal in a rail application but nontheless, they were a very successful machine. The engine, of which 2 were fitted in each locomotive were de-rated from 3300hp to 1650hp each to give a total of 3300hp. When they were built they were the most powerfull diesel locos in the world and only weighed 105 tons. They were also quick at 105mph although they were known to achieve more. They sound not to dissimilar to a Lancaster bomber taking off when on full bore.

[Simon Reed]

This page:-

http://www.preserved-diesels.co.uk/engines/index_55.htm

shows the six remaining examples from the main production batch of 22. Click on the numbers to see photos.

As a UK rail icon they are comparable to the GG1.

Also on the page is the prototype, which was never numbered but simply named Deltic.

Note the huge (by European standards) headlight. It was built by English Electric as a demonstration unit and there were high hopes at the time that it could be a successful export - English Electric were particularly interested in the Canadian market and put the headlight in to make it a more attractive proposition.

Ultimately there were no more orders than the 22 for British Railways although a second demonstrator with a revised, and slightly more conventional, power unit generated orders from British Railways and Portugal.  

 

[Simon Reed]

I would add that they do have a particular, PA1 - like characteristic!

http://www.preserved-diesels.co.uk/2007b/55019_4.htm

 

[owlsroost]

I would add that they do have a particular, PA1 - like characteristic!

http://www.preserved-diesels.co.uk/2007b/55019_4.htm

Definitely - I was a passenger on the 'Deltic Deliverance' railtour in 1996, the first run with paying passengers of a preserved Deltic (D9000/55022 'Royal Scots Grey').

The train had been very late in reaching Edinburgh (where D9000 was attached to haul it back south to London), so the 'Deltic' had been idling for hours and accumulated a lot of unburnt oil in the exhaust system - Deltics are 2-stroke diesels. When the train finally accelerated through the tunnel out of the station, huge clouds of white exhaust smoke filled the passenger cars to the extent that inside you could barely see one end from the other. Naturally this was accompanied by a huge cheer from the railfans on board

Unfortunately, the oil also spread onto the roof of the loco and caught fire by the time we got to Berwick-on-Tweed, so that was the end of Deltic haulage on that trip....(no serious damage occured to the loco).

Tony

[DMUinCT]

GE does have tours of the Erie Pa plant and its locomotive history gallery.  Only a few days a month.   Check the GE Transportaion Web Page for details.

www.getransportation.com   click on the right side of the screen "Railfan/Downloads"