New locos.

[cpbloom]

When new locomotives are built, (like GE's in Erie), can someone explain how they get delivered to other US and Canada RRs?

Is CSX the only RR with access to GE's loco plant, or does NS have access too?

Do they immediately deliver the new locos to the owners or do they "pool em" first?

If they do deliver right away, are the new locos used as power in the train itself?

Just curious.

 

 

[wctransfer]

I can certainly tell you that no, the units arent under power on their way to home rails. They have to head to a shop for set up first I believe.

Alec

[PBenham]

When new locomotives are built, (like GE's in Erie), can someone explain how they get delivered to other US and Canada RRs?

Is CSX the only RR with access to GE's loco plant, or does NS have access too?

Do they immediately deliver the new locos to the owners or do they "pool em" first?

If they do deliver right away, are the new locos used as power in the train itself?

Just curious.

 

 

There are two options for a locomotive buyer, have it delivered "dead", or, it can be set up at the factory and work its way to your railroad. BNSF,CN,CSX and UP get their power "live". CP and KCS do not. They set them up at their own facilities. The others want to have CSX or NS run them prior to final acceptance and get the horse power hours credited to them. This BTW, gives CSX and NS "free" power. This partially answers the question about NS access to GE. Since GE is served by their own railroad, the East Erie Commercial RR, NS has equal access to EEC with CSX. So, yes new units are "pooled". As an example, CSX gets some new BNSF ES44DCs off the EEC. Q640 picks them up in Erie and they are MU'd into the consist. A GE technician rides with them up to Mudville, USA (Frontier yard) then, they are inspected by GE and BNSF representatives at Frontier. If they are OK, they will be put on, say Q291 as BNSF power, and they will start earning their keep. BNSF does not have to pay Illinois taxes, and earns enough in horsepower hours to offset the Pennsylvania delivery tax. Neat., huh?

Now, UP does it about the same way. NS gets the power and they run light to Conneaut OH. There UP and GE reps check them over, then they go on the next eastbound to Mudville. When they get there they are put on a westbound NS empty hopper train for Kansas City, or Chicago and work their way "home".

NS and CSX simply get them set up at Erie, and put them in the train that picks them up. For CSX, it's usually Q640, and they go up here. NS will run 'em light to Conneaut and then they'll go where the power desk sends them. CN will put them to work on the old Bessemer on a turn to Albion PA. Then, its up to Mudville, Detroit, or Toledo, where CN will put them to work. Crews love running new power. One kick is the "new locomotive smell", which I am told is very much like new car smell and, no where as hard on the wallet! My CN bud KT loves running new power, since as he puts it: "They aren't up yet!"

[cpbloom]

By "free" power, do you mean horsepower hours that NS and CSX don't have to pay back?

Thank you for your answers.

[PBenham]

By "free" power, do you mean horsepower hours that NS and CSX don't have to pay back?

Thank you for your answers.

Not exactly. It's more like getting their accounts credited without having to send units off line. These days with so much business needing so many locomotives, paying back horsepower hours is difficult. NS and CSX will credit BNSF or UP for the time they used the new power after it is accepted by UP or BNSF. Prior to that, under GE's test/break in agreement with them, NS and or CSX get to use the new power with GE's consent. Then, they get $ off the purchase price of new locomotives of theirs, or more favorable terms on leased power. This can include EMDs financed by GE Credit, Yep, It's TRrrue-.

[Railfan1]

   Great info.

[J. Edgar]

 when i worked the detroit division (service lane) of CSX the CPRail runthrus we worked would on occasion have new units being delievered....i remember around 1998\99 UP's sd90\44macs would come thru first unpainted then they started showing up painted and RUNNING.....sometimes going up Plymouth hill the engineer would tell me to go put one online to make the hill......usually when we would have nothing but sd40's on the headend.....i dont know if it was a deal between CSX and UP but i never saw any other units.....just GM's for UP........another note....we would switch Peaker service which is a local prime mover rebuilder.....they would rebuild maybe 20 locos year.......they did alot of generator sets....using GM 645 engines......neat watching \listening to a test run of a 645/generator running full tilt and going nowhere

[Anonymous]

All new EMD's bound for the west (UP, BNSF, KCS and even the three FEC 70M-2s) come through on CN freights on the Port Huron, Flint, and South Bend subs, about 50 miles from me. Usually they're in primer, never running, shipped with empty fuel tanks. Some even come through as just frames and prime movers tarped over.

[J. Edgar]

 well yea now maybe......

[J. Edgar]

 and i of course mean no disrespect........after my departure from railroading other things in life have kept me from the forfront of cutting edge railroading.................its good to learn that MI rr's are still getting their share of the market......keeps local railroaders on the job

[Anonymous]

 well yea now maybe......

I didn't mean to contradict you. I was just explaining how it happens here, now, the way I've always known it.

[J. Edgar]

 sok....but when i was a trainman we had the "new" big UP SD's on our CP run thrus....sometimes.....CN to busy??? dunno but we had em....hoggers would love it cuz the extra axles mean extra money.....and im sure you know that CH143 is now in the lansing sub...........

[J. Edgar]

 and hey.....great link there the steamfan page love it love it love it.......im a die hard steam nut....spent 3 summers working on the PM 1225 from 89 to 91....followed her down to Huntington (double headed with NKP 765....heaven i tell ya heaven) in 92.....did the fireman for an hour with a superheater donation in 91......love the smell of coal smoke in the morning

[J. Edgar]

 and hey.....great link there the steamfan page love it love it love it.......im a die hard steam nut....spent 3 summers working on the PM 1225 from 89 to 91....followed her down to Huntington (double headed with NKP 765....heaven i tell ya heaven) in 92.....did the fireman for an hour with a superheater donation in 91......love the smell of coal smoke in the morning

 correction....fireman for an hour in 90 and Huntington was 91.....

[Anonymous]

 and hey.....great link there the steamfan page love it love it love it.......im a die hard steam nut....spent 3 summers working on the PM 1225 from 89 to 91....followed her down to Huntington (double headed with NKP 765....heaven i tell ya heaven) in 92.....did the fireman for an hour with a superheater donation in 91......love the smell of coal smoke in the morning

Thanks, J. Edgar. Actually in late 2005 the Plymouth and Lansing subs were rejoined again into one big Plymouth sub, from GR to Plymouth. Seems kinda pointless, but whatever.

So you used to run the CP runthroughs, eh? Wish they were still up here, all except our Sunday-Thursday X500 were rerouted south on the NS ex Conrail Chicago line. Makes for a lot less trains through GR these days.

Glad you liked the website. Do you have any pictures of 1225 or 765 you'd like to share?

[J. Edgar]

 hired on in 96 on the GR east extra board.....got lucky in early 98 held the ensel brakemens board worked the board for 3 yrs in between both ensel locals d708/d709.....missed engine service while at ensel.....bumped back to GR in 2000.......personal reasons ....and seeing the writing on the wall about business...i resigned in 02....i now drive tractor-trailer in SE Mi....ive got photos of the Huntington trip as well as some other local trains....i have trouble with photobucket but ill work on a post for them.......never did figure oput why they split the ply sub.....always thought it had something to do with dsp control thru lansing....CSX mainline....the busier between  CSX\CR-NS.....was "owned" from MA to North Lansing....about 1.1 miles that all changed the same day they cut in the new sub.....i got OT on 709 that day......

 

[Anonymous]

Haha, yeah. D708 runs out of GR now, and they OT everyday, and then get recrewed as D908. GR to Grand Ledge is just too much to do in one night (called at 7:00 p.m.). D709 still runs out of Lansing, and they always run out of time too. As a result, the Great Lakes Central (the former Tuscola & Saginaw Bay) has a hard time getting cars from CSX.

If you can't get the photo's on photo bucket you're more than welcome to email them to me at [e-mail] . I'd love to have some photos of the Huntington run on my site, if you'd like to contribute.

[J. Edgar]

 i posted some of them today....and love to have my photos at your site be my guest..........so your saying that other then eastern coal (still?), Q326\327, Q334\335, and grain theres nothing running between chi and det/tol up here?

i know they (upper man.) always pissed and moaned about gettin crews to ensel when needed....was usually hard to get OT on 708 outa lansing......always turned at alto.....709 always had more cars......maybe not more work but more cars.......but we had the extra man too.....left east outa ensel 1 time with 1 2800 geep 38 and 3600 tons......many many unhappy drivers thru lansing that day....and a very hostile crew.....we alsmost always always left ensel with over 2000 tons....all thru 98,99,00....

[Anonymous]

Well by goly they changed it again today. D708 now runs out of Ensel, turning at Lake O. A yard job running east out of GR now handles what was Y106's work and D708's old work at Alto.

Between GR and Plymouth for through trains all we have is X500, Q326, Q327 (both of which are usually under 5 cars), Q355, Q334 (which are usually around 70), an ocassional grain train, irregular coke trains, ocassional eastern coal for West Olive (with empties going back east), and the D708 and D709. In GR Marquette Rail's Z151 comes down the former CSX Ludington sub everynight into Wyoming to pick up/set out. There can be 5 hour traffic lulls up here. On a regular day, 5 trains will run. We did have the Essexville coal trains for a while, so N956 and E945 were regular up here. CN got the contract back for three months, so until July, no Essexville trains on CSX.

West of GR is completely different. West Olive (consumer's power in Port Sheldon) is now recieving 3 coal trains a day, plus empties going west. Amtrak P371 and P370 run everyday, along with huge Q326's and Q327's (compared to east of GR!). Through in X500, the local D700 running west out of GR, Mid Michigan Railroad's Z627 that comes down to Waverly at night from Muskegon, the irregular eastern coal, coke, grain and stone, and west of GR, especially west of Holland, can be pretty busy.

[Andrew Falconer]

Regarding New Locomotive Deliveries.

On the CN-GTW Mainline to Chicago over the past 10 years the new EMD units are in primer some deliveries and other deliveries the units are fully painted. This is for both BNSF and UP.

On Sunday Morning, May 14th Union Pacific SD70ACe pair #8575 and #8581 were behind the lead power of a CN DASH 9 and SD75I.

Who is painting the new EMD units in Eastern Canada or the U.S.?

Andrew

[J. Edgar]

Q326/327 were always Chi-Det trains that were worked over in GR like Q336\337 was Chi-Fli thru GR.....Q334\335 i think was Chi-Tol.....326\7 always worked ensel and ply.....336\7 was ply going up and grand blanc comin back.....334\5 was ensel and maybe setouts at wayne.....326 and 334 was the staple for ensel SO|PK....326\7 was always a crap shoot both in power and tonnage.....usually short on one........334\5 was always over tonnage under powered and to much work.....

[Anonymous]

Yup, 326 and 327 are CHI-DET, while 334 and 355 are GRR-TOL. Q326 and Q327 east of GR always overpowered even after working Ensel, with 326 heading east out of GR with 2 online units, maybe 5 or 6 cars, and the the weekends bringing back the 4 Geeps based in Ensel. Same goes for 327.

For some reason Q355 and Q334 always have 2 units. Though usually only 50 cars, these trains can get over 100 cars long. As a result, Q335 usually doesn't make it into GR, outlawing at Fox or Elmdale.

There hasn't been a 336 or 337 since I've started railfanning. The only traffic coming out of Flint heading west on the Plymouth sub is a saturday night X209, which is loaded autoracks. There was talk earliar of re-establishing Q336/Q337, to take some traffic out of Toledo (cars go east to go west, go figure), but nothing's happened yet.

[J. Edgar]

i remember before i quit 336\7 where routed south thru plymouthto the garret sub......times are a changin....

[J. Edgar]

and i had to re-read that.....ensel gets 4 geeps now???   we would have 2 3 at the most.....y302 would use 1 till the local crews showed up....709 was always overtonnage/ under powered...typical 709 in 1999 would have 20 to 30 cars.....all loads...few mts for webberville....lots for thermofil....rhietec.....and tsby would always have so\pk......and the 4 paper cars....international paper in howell.....worst switch cuz its a westbound move.......short on time and patence