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4 years, really?

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4 years, really?
Posted by Mrchickenstrips on Saturday, August 10, 2024 3:58 PM

Is it true that a new SD70ACE-T4 hasn't been built since 2020? What has Progress Rail, or more specifically Electro-Motive Diesel been doing for the past 4+ years?

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, August 12, 2024 10:13 AM

They have been building a fair amount of export models.

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Posted by D.Carleton on Monday, August 12, 2024 10:47 AM

I'm sure they'll sell you one.

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Posted by n012944 on Monday, August 12, 2024 12:32 PM

Mrchickenstrips

Is it true that a new SD70ACE-T4 hasn't been built since 2020? What has Progress Rail, or more specifically Electro-Motive Diesel been doing for the past 4+ years?

 

 

One can hope, trying to make their offering better.   It has been awhile since they have built a good locomotive.

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Posted by D.Carleton on Monday, August 12, 2024 1:10 PM

Ostensibly they did try to interest CPKC in an order. No sale.

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Posted by Mrchickenstrips on Monday, August 12, 2024 3:23 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH

They have been building a fair amount of export models.

 

Such as?

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Posted by Mrchickenstrips on Monday, August 12, 2024 3:24 PM

D.Carleton

I'm sure they'll sell you one.

It would look great in my back yard, imagine if someone took a gutted shell and put their model layout in it. Similar to cabooses turned into clubs

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Posted by SD70Dude on Monday, August 12, 2024 4:19 PM

CPKC has been testing some SD70ACe-T4s in recent months, ten units I believe.  As mentioned this has not (yet) resulted in a sale, instead someone in North America placed a over $600 million order with the other guy.........

https://ir.wabteccorp.com/static-files/6a0c63e8-efd2-4bfd-b2d7-1afd3814c5cc

I remember when CN tested a pair of Tier-IV SD70s (EMDX 1605 and 1606) not long after they came out, back in late 2017.  Initially they seemed to be doing well and were liked by crews, but the test runs came to an abrupt end after both units broke down on the same night in Saskatchewan.  Only a week or two later CN ordered 200 units from GE, which was later increased to 260.

In other Progress/EMD news, the first CN SD75IACC DC-to-AC rebuilds are being released, numbered in the CN 8300 series.  So far I believe only one is on the property.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09tNknEdo70

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEsGlQCeK_A

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Posted by Mrchickenstrips on Monday, August 12, 2024 8:06 PM

SD70Dude

In other Progress/EMD news, the first CN SD75IACC DC-to-AC rebuilds are being released, numbered in the CN 8300 series.  So far I believe only one is on the property.

 

Wow, any details on the rebuilds? They look the same externally besides the dpu markers. I love the SD75. My favorite "modern" diesel. Never seen one in person however. My first "big boy" HO scale engine was an Athearn Genesis fakebonnet SD75M. Wasn't it the first of the modern diesels to make 4400 hp while all the rest were at 4000? It kind of set the HP standard that we've had for about 30 years.

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Tuesday, August 13, 2024 1:07 AM

As noted, CPKC is currently testing and that testing isn't done. Even if they do bite, EMD will probably sell of the units that they have in hand before they build one. 

 

 

EMD has also been doing rebuilds and reworks. So they haven't been idle.

 

It's not as if Wabtec is sending out hundreds of ET44s. They are mostly a rebuild shop too. 

 

 

At this point, EMD is probably more interested in selling Joules anyway. 

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, August 13, 2024 8:06 AM

It would appear that the current level of technology required to meet T4 level emission standards are not sufficiently fuel efficient to get the carriers to place orders for the T4 level machines.

Are the manufacturers still working on T4 machines to improve fuel economy?

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Posted by D.Carleton on Tuesday, August 13, 2024 10:27 AM

I would add that GE made thousands of the GEVO engine in the tier-3 version yielding valuable real-time experience before modifying to tier-4. EMD had a grand total of one SD89 test bed with a V12 version of the 265H, now 1010, engine. They likely will never catch up in engine hours.

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Tuesday, August 13, 2024 1:25 PM

Well, EMD has added DEF to the 710 in Railroad Applications. That gets you some good fuel economy...compared to an ET44 or SD70-T4. 

 

 

It's not their fault the railroads demanded a system that was going to explicitly drop fuel economy. 

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Tuesday, August 13, 2024 1:30 PM

D.Carleton

I would add that GE made thousands of the GEVO engine in the tier-3 version yielding valuable real-time experience before modifying to tier-4. EMD had a grand total of one SD89 test bed with a V12 version of the 265H, now 1010, engine. They likely will never catch up in engine hours.

 

 

Ummm, so all those H engines running around China are not valuable real time experience? 

Having an entire engineering staff from Cat to Poach from doesn't give them added benefits?

 

There's no indication that there are particular issues with the 1010J that are impacting sales. They've been generally pretty tight lipped about the issues, but I was under the impression they were due to the EGR and other T4 components more than anything. 

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Posted by D.Carleton on Tuesday, August 13, 2024 5:31 PM

YoHo1975
Ummm, so all those H engines running around China are not valuable real time experience?

The HXN3 as well as the SD90MAC used the V16 variant of the 265H come 1010. Some experience was gained to be sure but their future lays with the V12. Loping off four cylinders creates a new set of issues, vis-a-vis the revised firing order on the 710-12. And as for "Cat expertise" those terms are mutually exclusive as Cat is world renowned for making "disposable diesels."

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Tuesday, August 13, 2024 9:16 PM

So you have no evidence there were problems, you've decided there must have.

 

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Posted by D.Carleton on Wednesday, August 14, 2024 3:46 AM

YoHo1975
So you have no evidence there were problems, you've decided there must have.

They're not selling. That's a problem.

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Wednesday, August 14, 2024 11:31 AM

Wabtec has sold 34 Diesel electric units in 2024. I'm not sure the split between ET44 and ES44 credit units. 

And those were the first new domestic locomotive orders in 4 years. 

EMD got the SD70AC-T4 out really fast when they got bought by CAT. Impressively fast, but the entire locomotive market turned on it's head within 4 years. 

They never had a chance regardless of how the product works. The fuel economy sucks by design, so now Wabtec and Progress are mostly rebuild and export shops...and Battery Electric shops. 

 

So yes, it is a problem, but 10 seconds looking at the market shows that they didn't have a chance. 

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