The Last of the Firsts

[Mrchickenstrips]

Presenting, for your consideration, the last first generation diesel locomotive built (North American). BC Hydro #911, a GMD SW900, was built in March of 1969. The SW900 traces its roots to December of 1953, almost 10 years before the introduction of the GE U25B and the second generation. As far as I know, this unit still serves with SRY Rail Link. Interestingly it was built with a 645 instead of the usual 567. 

[BaltACD]

The 'true' first generation 'production' diesels were powered by Winton 201 primemovers.  Those built with the EMD 567 engine are in reality, 2nd generation.

[Mrchickenstrips]

The accepted 2nd generation starts with the U25B and GP30. 

[BaltACD]

Mrchickenstrips

The accepted 2nd generation starts with the U25B and GP30. 

Only because few attached significance of the switch from the Winton 201 to the EMD 567 and the carbodies didn't change to support the installation of the newer prime mover and its associated hardware.  At the time the simple switch from steam to diesel was the 'generation' that was being documented.

[Overmod]

BaltACD

The 'true' first generation 'production' diesels were powered by Winton 201 primemovers.  Those built with the EMD 567 engine are in reality, 2nd generation.

By that standard, every practical Baldwin road locomotive is 'second-generation' because the 567 predates them.

I used to consider the RSD7 and 15 to be the first 'second-generation' locomotives, with a nod toward the TrainMasters.  But note that he says 'commonly accepted' and it looks as if most of the current railfan 'authorities' do give the U25, in 1959, the nod as the first 'second-generation' unit.  Alco then enters the second generation with the Century series.

Of course the nerd rage starts with the question 'is the EMD counterpart the first units with factory-turbo 567s, or 645s?'  Following my original precedent above a GP18 is NOT second-generation but a GP24 is.  That's not what I see reading around a bit.

The cutoff around the 645 engine is interesting because the can of worms it opens up is a valid one for this thread.  A whole industry grew up around using 645 power-assembly components on 567 engines, for parts compatibility as (in North America) the older 567 crankcases weren't up to the added thrust.  Does that also apply when the whole engine is 645 but its fuel rack is set to match 567 horsepower?

[YoHo1975]

Is not the generally accepted term for a 645 power assembly with a 567 crankcase to just create a non-factory designation in factory format? For example, a GP20 with 645 assemblies would be a 16-645D(Crank Case revision)2(turbo version I believe)

The crankcase is the Letter following the cylinder displacement. So, if you're running 645 power assemblies, you have 645CID per cylinder. 

 

 

As for this discussion. As mentioned, the commonly accepted distinction is that 2nd gen starts with the U25...and that is, as I understand it, partially due to certain design features. Not just timing. 

 

 

SO then the question for locomotive #911 is, is it a 645 with a C crank case? Or is it a true 645E

[Backshop]

I've always considered one of the clues to the beginning of second generation locomotives is that they have central air intakes.  Ergo--GP30/U25/Centuries. 

[BaltACD]

Have we seen the first of the Lasts?

Since the introduction of Main Line six axle, 4K Horsepower AC traction in the mid 1990's - we have yet to see any quantum advance in locomotives.  The only things have have been introduced in the following decades have been the Tier's of exhaust polution control.

Whats next?  Anything?

[YoHo1975]

At this point it sure seems like the next revolution is going to be on the prime mover side and a switch. 

 

Insert already well litigated thoughts on that.

 

Question, Is there an understood Gen4 to Diesel electrics? Or is just everything after super7/SD50 and computer control is gen 3.

[Backshop]

BaltACD

Have we seen the first of the Lasts?

Since the introduction of Main Line six axle, 4K Horsepower AC traction in the mid 1990's - we have yet to see any quantum advance in locomotives.  The only things have have been introduced in the following decades have been the Tier's of exhaust polution control.

Whats next?  Anything?

 

I think it comes down to what is the largest, most useful, most dependable level at a certain time. Back in the 50s, it was 15-1600hp.  Think F7/GP7/RS3, etc. Locomotives that were too big didn't cut it.  Examples were the Trainmaster and Centipede. At the beginning of the second generation, it was 3000hp--the era of the SD40/U30C. The bigger Uboats and SD45s didn't sell as well.  Now, with better traction control, AC and heavier trains, we're up to 43-4400hp.  The 6000hp models didn't sell.