Trains.com

How do you get a fair rate to move a locomotive on CSX?

2153 views
16 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    July 2020
  • 54 posts
How do you get a fair rate to move a locomotive on CSX?
Posted by highball6868 on Monday, August 3, 2020 12:41 PM

Our Club needs to move a "Diesal" Locomotive from Nashville TN to Port Huron MI and we have heard that other clubs have gotten nightmare rates in the 10,000 or more range

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 21,231 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Monday, August 3, 2020 12:46 PM

highball6868
Our Club needs to move a Locomotive from Nashville TN to Port Huron MI and we have heard that other clubs have gotten nightmare rates in the 10,000 or more range

Get Jim Foote to be a member of your club, otherwise, CSX is in the business to make money - anyway they can.

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 7,090 posts
Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, August 3, 2020 12:58 PM

Not an expert in this by any means, but you'll never know unless you ask CSX (or anyone else, for that matter) and get a quote.  Never hurts to ask. 

Mind you, if and when you do go for a quote be ready for any questions they'll have for you,  such as what kind of locomotive is it?  How old is it?  Do the axles have roller bearings or old-style plain bearings?  Is there easy access to the railroads main line or branch line?  Things like that, so be as ready as you can with answers. 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 21,231 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Monday, August 3, 2020 3:59 PM

Flintlock76
Not an expert in this by any means, but you'll never know unless you ask CSX (or anyone else, for that matter) and get a quote.  Never hurts to ask. 

Mind you, if and when you do go for a quote be ready for any questions they'll have for you,  such as what kind of locomotive is it?  How old is it?  Do the axles have roller bearings or old-style plain bearings?  Is there easy access to the railroads main line or branch line?  Things like that, so be as ready as you can with answers. 

Additional question would be if the locomotive were to be moved on its own wheels or loaded on a rail car.  Remember C&O 1309 was moved from Baltimore to the Western Maryland Senic in Cumberland loaded on a rail cars.  

Unless you can 'tug on CSX's heart strings' your organization will be responsible for all the necessary engineering on how to load, unload and secure the locomotive on whatever kind of freight car is deemed necessary, as well as paying the freight bill for the move from your origin to your destination.  You will also be responsibile for whatever crane and rigging companies that may be necessary to load and unload your locomotive.

Moving 'what you perceive as a historic' locomotive is not a frivolous undertaking - and will not be priced as such.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzwSm-tKMu8

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • 3,857 posts
Posted by Convicted One on Monday, August 3, 2020 4:28 PM

Dare I say that the real cost of moving such a treasure might go a long way towards explaining why it was available at such a "bargain" in the first place?

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 17,777 posts
Posted by Overmod on Monday, August 3, 2020 4:34 PM

highball6868
Our Club needs to move a Locomotive from Nashville TN to Port Huron MI and we have heard that other clubs have gotten nightmare rates in the 10,000 or more range

The example you need to study, and then follow, is the move of ex-NKP 757 from Pennsylvania to Kentucky recently.  The most important take-home message: DO YOUR HOMEWORK and then DO YOUR PREP BELIEVABLY.  CSX will expect high insurance coverage if there is any meaningful risk ... of delay to its operations, let alone catastrophe during the move.  The Kentucky people did their work ... and their networking ... so well that CSX actually let them put a little 2-8-4 version of the CSX 'boxcar' logo on the tender for the move.

I would get with those guys and work out a FULLY detailed plan, quietly, before even starting to noise around on foamer forums that you don't have the funding to accomplish a move right.

(P.S. there is another very good example of sensible thinking right there in Nashville with the 576 group -- do as they do, think as they think, finance as they finance, in advance of the time you need credibility.)


I'm kinda assuming this is a diesel of some kind.  If it has any kind of bearing other than an exposable roller-bearing type that shows rotation and will display line-of-sight overhearing to wayside hotbox detectors-- you may be looking at retrucking with something compliant, and taking the historic trucks on a flatcar.  Or demonstrating, as the Kentuckians did, that your bearings are serviceable and you have riders who can and will keep them good...

... and get shelf couplers and put them in.  Don't even start asking until you do. 

  • Member since
    December 2017
  • From: I've been everywhere, man
  • 3,641 posts
Posted by SD70Dude on Monday, August 3, 2020 4:41 PM

Is your club a registered nonprofit?  If someone were to donate all or part of the cost of moving the locomotive could you issue them a tax receipt for the donation?

+1 to everything Overmod said.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

  • Member since
    July 2020
  • 54 posts
Posted by highball6868 on Wednesday, August 5, 2020 9:44 AM

Sent CSX email to to there rate quote department that is advertised on the Trains Website. CSX ad said that they can generate a rate in 3 days Email came back from there communications department despsite instead of the freight rate bureau. In all reality i expect this to take a couple of months from what have heard from other rr clubs. Now if the NRHS would do something along the lines of acting as a broker clearinghouse for its member clubs the process would be quicker and fairer.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 17,777 posts
Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, August 5, 2020 10:02 AM

Obviously this is not something that will move at interchange freight rate.  (And in my opinion asking for such a quote without knowing the numerous reasons why might make CSX acutely aware that your people Don't Know What They're Doing... a particular kiss of death at that particular carrier.

As Wayne or other ex-military would advise, don't start your homework with a live-fire exercise.  By the time you even contact CSX you need the whole shipping plan in place, proof of ready funds, adequate arrangements for insurance, answers to those little questions about things like bearings and brakes and couplers... do you have all that ready?

 

  • Member since
    July 2020
  • 54 posts
Posted by highball6868 on Wednesday, August 5, 2020 10:38 AM

CSX does run through our clubs back yard. The Port Huron and Detroit was bought out by CSX about 20 years ago. Our Clubhouse is the old Interchange tower next to CN.

  • Member since
    July 2020
  • 54 posts
Posted by highball6868 on Wednesday, August 5, 2020 10:40 AM

Here is the Trains mag ad...CSX ad copy writers makes this sound easy..

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 17,777 posts
Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, August 5, 2020 11:05 AM

highball6868
Here is the Trains mag ad...CSX ad copy writers makes this sound easy..

Well, it is easy, if you have the money and you don't have any little operational difficulties.  Most of the prospective business development is for shipper freight, repeat business to be loaded and moved conveniently by "PSR" optimizable methods.  Not a one-time move of a heavy item likely undermaintained and requiring special handling in an ad hoc lane.

  • Member since
    December 2017
  • From: I've been everywhere, man
  • 3,641 posts
Posted by SD70Dude on Wednesday, August 5, 2020 5:57 PM

Assuming Highball's real name isn't Raymond, it looks like the locomotive he is referring to is Port Huron & Detroit 52, an ALCO S1 with plain bearings and no MU connections.  It probably doesn't have alignment control couplers either.

I would advise you to forget about moving this on its own wheels in a regular freight train.  Even if you manage to win CSX over there is still the danger that individual operating employees will manage to damage the locomotive, due to their unfamiliarity with the controls and other appliances found on such an old unit.  Not to mention the in-train forces that are now normal in long freight trains.  

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: South Central,Ks
  • 6,820 posts
Posted by samfp1943 on Wednesday, August 5, 2020 6:16 PM

SD70Dude

Assuming Highball's real name isn't Raymond, it looks like the locomotive he is referring to is Port Huron & Detroit 52, an ALCO S1 with plain bearings and no MU connections.  It probably doesn't have alignment control couplers either.

I would advise you to forget about moving this on its own wheels in a regular freight train.  Even if you manage to win CSX over there is still the danger that individual operating employees will manage to damage the locomotive, due to their unfamiliarity with the controls and other appliances found on such an old unit.  Not to mention the in-train forces that are now normal in long freight trains.  

  Highball6868:  You have a pretty solid list of dos and Don't listed here by other posters.   The advice and 'guess' by SD70 Dude; Suggested that possibly, your club might want to investigate moving your 'diesel via a ROAD HAUL?   Since the road trip from Nashville to Port Huron is pretty much all interstate highway..

  Clearances might not be a major issue if the engine is on a 'low boy' style trailer.  Height might be further adjusted by removal of some structure (Cab) and exhaust stack(s) ?  There are numerous 'Heavy Haul' companies around the country that would move a load such as a small diesel engine (Alco S1 (?) ).  Weight on highway can be adjusted by Permits and number of axles.  

As the others have stated in this Thread, Planing, Planing, Planing ! Whistling 

      Might be a more economical way to move it.  Just my thoughts. 

Spec from Wiki page on Alco S-1 and S-3s

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALCO_S-1_and_S-3

 

 

 


 

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: roundhouse
  • 2,745 posts
Posted by Randy Stahl on Wednesday, August 5, 2020 6:33 PM

 

 

I'll second that. It is not moving on its own wheels.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 21,231 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, August 6, 2020 7:28 PM

samfp1943
 
SD70Dude

Assuming Highball's real name isn't Raymond, it looks like the locomotive he is referring to is Port Huron & Detroit 52, an ALCO S1 with plain bearings and no MU connections.  It probably doesn't have alignment control couplers either.

I would advise you to forget about moving this on its own wheels in a regular freight train.  Even if you manage to win CSX over there is still the danger that individual operating employees will manage to damage the locomotive, due to their unfamiliarity with the controls and other appliances found on such an old unit.  Not to mention the in-train forces that are now normal in long freight trains.   

  Highball6868:  You have a pretty solid list of dos and Don't listed here by other posters.   The advice and 'guess' by SD70 Dude; Suggested that possibly, your club might want to investigate moving your 'diesel via a ROAD HAUL?   Since the road trip from Nashville to Port Huron is pretty much all interstate highway.. 

  Clearances might not be a major issue if the engine is on a 'low boy' style trailer.  Height might be further adjusted by removal of some structure (Cab) and exhaust stack(s) ?  There are numerous 'Heavy Haul' companies around the country that would move a load such as a small diesel engine (Alco S1 (?) ).  Weight on highway can be adjusted by Permits and number of axles.  

As the others have stated in this Thread, Planing, Planing, Planing ! Whistling 

      Might be a more economical way to move it.  Just my thoughts. 

Spec from Wiki page on Alco S-1 and S-3s

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALCO_S-1_and_S-3

With a weight of almost 100 TONS - it might be difficult to get the necessary highway permits to move it over the highways from Nashville to Michigan.

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: South Central,Ks
  • 6,820 posts
Posted by samfp1943 on Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:04 PM

Linked @ https://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2018/10/22-arizona-museum-gets-alco-diesel

 

From an article in a TRAINS magazine Oct.22,2018: "Arizona museum gets Alco diesel" By Alexander D. Mitchell IV

Has photo of Alco on a heavy duty flat car [4 trucks] might give you some answers; and possible contacts! 

 

 


 

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy