Hydrogen Fuel Cell Buses are here can Hydro Locos be that far behind?

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Hydrogen Fuel Cell Buses are here can Hydro Locos be that far behind?
Posted by CandOforprogress2 on Thursday, June 07, 2018 12:50 PM

Rode a Hydro Electrict Fuel Cell bus in Canton OH. Clean Quiet like a trolley bus but no need for wires

https://www.sartaonline.com/hydrogen-fuel-cell

https://www.railengineer.uk/2016/11/04/and-now-hydrogen-power-alstoms-new-fuel-cell-powered-train/

BNSF tried this on switcher in 2008 but no word what happened to the project-

https://www.railengineer.uk/2016/11/04/and-now-hydrogen-power-alstoms-new-fuel-cell-powered-train/

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Posted by VOLKER LANDWEHR on Friday, June 08, 2018 9:31 AM

All you examples have low prime mover power. The bus one fuel-cell of 150 kW, the Alstom iLINT two fuel-cells with together 400 kW and the BNSF HH20B #1205 two fuel-cells of together.

The BNSF is more a battery locomotive with a fuel-cell loader.

Fuel-cell EMUs cost about 75% more than their DMU counterparts. So there is the higher purchase price. The difference was paid for by German government in the iLINT purchase.

You need to build an H2-infrastructure and first of all produce enough H2. As long as H2 isn't produced with solar or wind energie or other renewables it is almost as dirty as diesel.

I don't know how operating costs (diesel fuel, H2-fuel, different fuel consumption, and system efficiencies etc.) play out.

Here is some information about the BNSF HH20B.
- Before being built: https://uic.org/cdrom/2008/11_wcrr2008/pdf/R.2.2.3.3.pdf
- And after completion: www.apta.com/mc/rail/previous/2010/Papers/Demonstration-of-a-Hydrogen-Fuel-Cell-Locomotive.pdf

BNSF got a patent in 2012: U.S. Patent Number 8117969: https://patents.google.com/patent/US8117969

The locomotive was repainted in 2014. It is still in Trains magazine's BNSF roster.
Regards, Volker

 

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Posted by CandOforprogress2 on Friday, June 08, 2018 2:18 PM

Just learned that Canton Ohio Bus gets there Hydrogen trucked in from Sarnia ON by the truckload. So the carbon footprint by the Diesal Truck bringing in the Hydro from 250 miles away probaly exceeds what they are saving.

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Posted by HR616 on Friday, June 08, 2018 8:18 PM

GO Transit in Toronto is seriously looking into Hydrogen power. They have already commissioned Alstom/Siemens to prepare a bilevel fuel cell electric multiple unit concept design. They are also considering commissioning a fuel cell locomotive prototype. However, their documents state that a single Hydrogen locomotive would only be able to pull six cars (compared to the twelve pulled by MPI Diesels). 

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/news/announcements/hydrail-resources/CPG-PGM-RPT-245_HydrailFeasibilityReport_R1.pdf 

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Posted by guetem1 on Wednesday, July 11, 2018 2:35 AM
a recent interview with BNSF CEO Matt Rose indicated that BNSF was no longer interested in fuel cell technology and was now more interested in battery power
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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, July 11, 2018 8:38 AM

VOLKER LANDWEHR
You need to build an H2-infrastructure and first of all produce enough H2. As long as H2 isn't produced with solar or wind energie or other renewables it is almost as dirty as diesel.

I wish Volker had put much more emphasis on this point, which is one of the most significant in the iLINT planning.

Germany eschewed development or operation of French-style nuclear baseline power in favor of renewable technologies, notably wind.  These now produce substantial excess (but somewhat variable) power during parts of an average 24-hour day, which can easily be used for 'clean footprint' hydrogen generation.

The iLINT storage, distribution, and railcar fueling arrangements are all outsourced to a company specializing in this (Linde, I think).  This was reminiscent of Tom Blasingame's arranging for all fueling and ash removal for modern steam-turbine electric locomotives to be outsourced at fixed cost by experienced vendors or ventures.  Arguments have been made that the price to provide this is 'higher' in Germany because government agencies are willing to support a higher factor price for hydrogen (in part because of its carbon-reduction action, in part for pollution reduction) but I think the importance of guaranteed outsourced fueling of esoteric fuels can't be overemphasized even in fully for-profit applications.

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