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Amtrak and E7's

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Amtrak and E7's
Posted by Leo_Ames on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 12:16 AM

Anyone know when the last run was? Amtrak was still leasing some under a clause in the Rail Passenger Service Act that required host railroads to provide adequate power for Amtrak trains, into at least 1973.

Several GM&O units for example enjoyed a reprieve for a time, despite Amtrak's policy of buying only E8's and E9's that led to them never officially rostering one. Seaboard units also powered Amtrak trains early on, and I imagine quite possibly others did as well. 

I wonder if anyone knows what the last run was? 

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Posted by DSchmitt on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 2:13 AM

Found this, but it is not correct  "It is not believed that any remaining E7s actually made it into service on Amtrak although the carrier did utilize a number of aging E8s, E9s, FL9s, and FP7s."   Image search found photos of locomotives identified as E-7s on Amtrak trains.

From 
 http://www.american-rails.com/emd-e7.html#ixzz4ZOqCNWDY

 

 

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Posted by DSchmitt on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 2:43 AM

Found on Trainorders  http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,2777539

      by davew833 "Although Amtrak did use leased E-7s from the GM&O on it's St. Louis - Chicago - Milwaukee trains prior to the arrival of RTG Turbos in the early seventies."

From:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turboliner

"Amtrak leased two RTG trainsets from ANF in August 1973, at $85,000 per month.[17] These were based out of Chicago, and initially served the Chicago–St. Louis corridor."

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 9:11 PM

Not sure what the forum software was thinking with the gibberish in the title, but after editing, it's fixed now. :)

It had changed E7's to something like E7$%*%&'s. 

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 9:16 PM

Leo_Ames
Not sure what the forum software was thinking with the gibberish in the title, but after editing, it's fixed now. :)

It had changed E7's to something like E7$%*%&'s.

Forum software can't handle & in the title line - probably can't handle the other special characters either

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Posted by ACY on Friday, February 24, 2017 12:21 PM

Yes, I recall seeing those GM&O E7's hauling Saint Louis - Chicago trains past Roosevelt Road in the early Amtrak years. I seem to recall that Amtrak ran the trains through to Milwaukee, making Chicago an intermediate station. If I am correct in this, that means the GM&O E7's were operated into Milwaukee at that time. Somebody correct me if I'm not remembering this correctly. 

E7's were operated by several roads up until Amtrak Day (or almost), but the GM&O units are the only ones to operate in Amtrak service after that, as far as I know. I don't know whether any might have been in commuter service anywhere after Amtrak Day. 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, February 24, 2017 1:56 PM

I believe that a few PC E7A's were operating in commuter service on NY&LB after May 1, 1971 and may have lasted until the formation of Conrail.

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, February 24, 2017 2:22 PM

ACY
Yes, I recall seeing those GM&O E7's hauling Saint Louis - Chicago trains past Roosevelt Road in the early Amtrak years. I seem to recall that Amtrak ran the trains through to Milwaukee, making Chicago an intermediate station. If I am correct in this, that means the GM&O E7's were operated into Milwaukee at that time. Somebody correct me if I'm not remembering this correctly. 

E7's were operated by several roads up until Amtrak Day (or almost), but the GM&O units are the only ones to operate in Amtrak service after that, as far as I know. I don't know whether any might have been in commuter service anywhere after Amtrak Day. 

Tom

And from most of the pictures I have seen of them - the last time they had clean paint was the day they were received from EMD until the day they were cut up.

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Posted by artie on Friday, February 24, 2017 7:48 PM

PC E7S were definitely operating on the NY&LB at least into 1974. There was a model railroad club in the attic of the Elberon station, The Wreck Pond and Northern, that I used to visit. Windows opened trackside and you could heard the locomotives laboring from far away. We would run to the open windows (no air condition up there) and gaze upon 3 Es on the head end. Often one would be an E7 the others were E8s pulling whatever consist of passenger cars. There was always 3 locomotives. I was told that was done because one or two would fail in service so they needed spares. Penn Central was probably not maintaining these tired engines toward the end.

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Friday, February 24, 2017 9:12 PM

ACY
E7's were operated by several roads up until Amtrak Day (or almost), but the GM&O units are the only ones to operate in Amtrak service after that, as far as I know. I don't know whether any might have been in commuter service anywhere after Amtrak Day. 

Lots of pictures out there of Seaboard Coast Line E7's at the head of Amtrak trains.

I've just never seen one that was taken past late 1973, which got me to thinking of when the end came or if any other Amtrak participants other than these two ever utilized one of their E7's for an Amtrak run. 

Edit: Here's one that's online that I just found after a brief search.

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/356/

CSSHEGEWISCH

I believe that a few PC E7A's were operating in commuter service on NY&LB after May 1, 1971 and may have lasted until the formation of Conrail.

Their use on privately operated commuter trains there and on the Rock Island are fairly well established after Amtrak started, with both lasting into the late 1970's.

And while I've yet to see any evidence, I'm also sure some saw use on freight trains after Amtrak took over passenger service, since E8's and E9's certainly did.

And E7's before Amtrak arrived are known to have locked couplers with freight trains after their passenger days had ended, including on the Burlington, Burlington Northern, Pennsylvania, Seaboard Coast Line, and were even regeared for the job on the Bangor & Aroostook.

So I imagine they powered a freight train after May 1st, 1971, somewhere or another a few times. But that's not Amtrak...

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Posted by RME on Saturday, February 25, 2017 1:04 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH
I believe that a few PC E7A's were operating in commuter service on NY&LB after May 1, 1971 and may have lasted until the formation of Conrail.

I personally observed one (the only one I ever saw in that timeframe) in the enginehouse at the Perth Amboy 'change' yard in 1974, amid a sea of E8s.  [I should add that I got my license that year, and I did see E7s in the very early 1960s going through Manasquan, on the Shore, but that's not the time period involved here.]  I would be interested to see a roster with retirement dates.

But I thought this thread was about E7s on Amtrak trains, and there seems, to me, just about zero likelihood that any Long Branch E7 would be used on an Amtrak train, even in a power emergency.

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Posted by rubberheels on Thursday, March 02, 2017 7:26 AM
I hired on the PRR and ran many E-7's in the late 60's and after a couple of years we started getting E-8's. I was working on PRR and PC N.Y. division retired NS in 2006
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Posted by RME on Thursday, March 02, 2017 10:11 AM

Leo_Ames
And while I've yet to see any evidence, I'm also sure some saw use on freight trains after Amtrak took over passenger service, since E8's and E9's certainly did.

I highly suspect that any use of E7s on freight would quickly end somewhere involving a mistake with reverse transition (which I recall was manual on them).  That was given as a principal reason why E8s proved unworkable on PRR pig trains; freight crews would forget, and it would (albeit somewhat briefly) be Flashover City...

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, March 03, 2017 7:18 PM

Amtrak operated a lot of locomotives on a trip-lease basis before it got its own roster in order.  Among various E7s (ICG (GM&O), PC, L&N and SCL spring immediately to mind) Amtrak also operated various F units (AT&SF, BN, some SP B units) that they didn't end up buying (BN and SP units bought, not AT&SF). Amtrak also leased 8 of 10 of SP's SDP45s (3200 and 3205 went to the San Francisco Commute Pool, the others followed as Amtrak deployed SDP40Fs) and occasional GP9s and even RS-11s (PC, on the former NYNH&H).

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, March 05, 2017 11:29 AM

Sometime in the 70s or 80s observed a line of dead Amtrak marked Es parked south of the Wildwood, Fl station with most cabs pointed south..      

 

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Posted by RME on Sunday, March 05, 2017 12:47 PM

blue streak 1
Sometime in the 70s or 80s observed a line of dead Amtrak marked Es parked south of the Wildwood, Fl station with most cabs pointed south.. 

DID any of the leased E7s actually get painted in platinum mist or get Amtrak lettering?  I know of none that did, and it would be interesting to see what was done in that era (when Amtrak was making such a point of requiring private equipment to be painted in their 'colors')

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, March 05, 2017 1:33 PM

Amtrak never painted leased units, except for a few GG1s that got the "Rudolph" scheme ( (4)903, (4)906) and maybe one more ).

My favorite trip-leasers were CN F9Bs that occasionally showed up on the Montrealer/Washingtonian between the usual pairs of ex-PC E8s.  The Zebra stripes really stood out.  I don't think any FP9As were ever used, but I can't be positive.

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Posted by ATSFGuy on Monday, March 06, 2017 12:19 PM

During the "Rainbow Era", E units were common on long distance Amtrak trains. They lasted until I believe the late 70's.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, March 06, 2017 5:28 PM

rcdrye
Amtrak never painted leased units, except for a few GG1s that got the "Rudolph" scheme ( (4)903, (4)906) and maybe one more ).

Actually the first unit with Amtrak's arrow symbol was PC 4316, an E-8 still under lease.  Built as PRR 5716A, bought 1973 by Amtrak as 322, renumbered 461.  Sold to Green Mountain RR 1987 (stored behind Walpole NH roundhouse as "trade bait" according to a local source) to Central NY Chapter NRHS where it was painted as DL&W 807.

PC 4316 with Amtrak Arrow

http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0103/amt4316.jpg

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Thursday, March 09, 2017 10:31 AM

The new Classic Trains actually has a picture of PC/NYC E7 #4029, leased and leading an Amtrak train in late 1971.

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